From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: hw Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Some developement questions Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2018 10:45:13 +0200 Organization: my virtual residence Message-ID: <87zhwv2xz1.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <87zhxcbmtr.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83in409lub.fsf@gnu.org> <871sanb71j.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83y3cu7t9j.fsf@gnu.org> <87lg8t2ki9.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <20180827015422.lcq44zvsjffeau4j@Ergus> <83a7p76f5e.fsf@gnu.org> <87lg8p9o6y.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83pnxx1foj.fsf@gnu.org> <87k1o1a06q.fsf@russet.org.uk> <20180904203851.b7k3v7tefgr7s3yi@Ergus> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1536310155 28723 195.159.176.226 (7 Sep 2018 08:49:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2018 08:49:15 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, Phillip Lord To: Ergus Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 07 10:49:10 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fyCRx-0007Jq-OC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 10:49:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37472 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fyCU4-0006wX-31 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 04:51:20 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42744) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fyCPu-0002yB-2s for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 04:47:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fyCPt-0001Nb-0k for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 04:47:02 -0400 Original-Received: from mo6-p02-ob.smtp.rzone.de ([2a01:238:20a:202:5302::4]:31409) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fyCPs-0001Jt-Op for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 04:47:00 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1536310019; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=adminart.net; h=References:Message-ID:Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=g9xOMuv8bkk4RiSvAxgaLndfH+gHSJz/pQ13243tVgo=; b=qpoImZHkR332Qb0mVsOqWig6ZHYFTr7LKt0YlUhmXddEzEM3KcB8EA+vrqFE5tfTdN lUJHZI9SC8rjFsK6uTb2zYQcyf6Yvm4bLsnu5VcRDH2ROsDpR+TYR0B4nmWUXpO2pjai fjONpxr18E7VGLNKwGEu7BETwDFRqZf3jBjQU+Faplx76BPwvBJ+goe/0ns64/DoNbgG 8/Tq+AMhktIxN7Pg9uVNUcPadhDiiXXLaSpSRiy65Q7cvbeCOCyR0l+TQlgNqwqkhi9X RDXC2MyuPnVRmSqcLFayF4nUaxjgavOfg9hvqQ20z6CGvyhVufjA4e7Fe/BcOHaYVkLx fM0w== X-RZG-AUTH: ":O2kGeEG7b/pS1FS4THaxjVF9w0vVgfQ9xGcjwO5WMRo5c+h5ceMqQWZ3yrBp+AVdIIwXjneEe9k=" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Original-Received: from himinbjorg.adminart.net by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.0 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id e03b99u878k6B2R (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Fri, 7 Sep 2018 10:46:06 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from toy.adminart.net ([192.168.3.55]) by himinbjorg.adminart.net with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1fyCOz-0000oI-R1; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 10:46:05 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20180904203851.b7k3v7tefgr7s3yi@Ergus> (Ergus's message of "Tue, 4 Sep 2018 22:38:51 +0200") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2a01:238:20a:202:5302::4 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229385 Archived-At: Ergus writes: > The tutorial should mention how to add packages or at least introduce > the concepts (package, repository, extension, elpa, melpa), and a bit > less of history. But just at the very end in order to create some > expectations in the new user. "A tutorial is a method of transferring knowledge and may be used as a part of a learning process. More interactive and specific than a book or a lecture, a tutorial seeks to teach by example and supply the information to complete a certain task."[1] Introducing concepts (and their history) seems more suited for a manual. Tutorials would accompany the manual and explain in detail how to do something introdcued in the manual. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tutorial > Even if it is only to mention as an approximation, and let the > practical things in the manual. Wouldn't the practical things belong into the tutorial? > Personally I don't like the navigational structure because the simpler > structure is better for the tutorial until the user can do the basics. A > tutorial should feel like being inside emacs already as everyday. I might go ahead and write a story, "Inside Emacs". It would have a little boy called Richard who falls alseep on a couch while his mother is working on a LaTeX document in Emacs. With his head resting on a big heavy book about Emacs, in his dream he ends up in the pale light under the key caps on the ground between the buffers, inside Emacs, where all kinds of key bindings are scattered all over the place. Grown-up Richard comes along, searching for a key binding he's working on, so they start talking, and Richard explains key bindings to Richard. Each time Richard hits a key binding, Richard is being moved around or jumps up or down. They're having a lot of fun with it, until Richard finally finds the key binding he's looking for, and Richard wonders what it would be like to be inside a buffer when his mother wakes him up to eat potatoe pancakes for dinner ... That may help people to remember all the difficult key bindings by having a cute story to relate to.