From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?B?R8O2a3R1xJ8=?= Kayaalp Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: How are the defaults chosen? Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2020 17:33:38 +0300 Message-ID: <87zh5zqat9.fsf@gkayaalp.com> References: <83d02vkox1.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5510"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.2.0; emacs 28.0.50 Cc: thibaut.verron@gmail.com To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 09 16:34:17 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kG1Au-0001Jf-NM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 16:34:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60836 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kG1At-0001gL-QL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 10:34:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52906) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kG1AP-0001Ad-9L for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 10:33:45 -0400 Original-Received: from relay7-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.200]:46777) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kG1AN-0005kY-8v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2020 10:33:45 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 31.206.236.86 Original-Received: from localhost (unknown [31.206.236.86]) (Authenticated sender: self@gkayaalp.com) by relay7-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2C90C20006; Wed, 9 Sep 2020 14:33:39 +0000 (UTC) In-reply-to: <83d02vkox1.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: none client-ip=217.70.183.200; envelope-from=self@gkayaalp.com; helo=relay7-d.mail.gandi.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/09 10:24:22 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:254873 Archived-At: On 2020-09-09 17:25 +03, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Thibaut Verron >> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2020 10:02:15 +0200 >> If the latter, maybe spending time to agree on or decree such guidelines, >> at the same time as on how to change the defaults in the least >> disruptive way possible (already in progress) would help both with >> the current and the inevitable future discussions? > > How probable is the success of such a discussion, do you think? We > cannot even agree on specific options, and here you suggest to take > this disagreement to a much higher and abstract level. I=E2=80=99m no expert on large long standing projects (or small projects th= at die quickly, for that matter), but I=E2=80=99d risk the generalisation that= most defaults boil down to historical accident. I doubt we can come up with any useful guidelines or rules to make it into a more =E2=80=98objective=E2=80=99 process that could apply generally,= but maybe it=E2=80=99d be a nice idea to have the rough rule of thumb that =E2=80=98d= efaults of user-facing variables, or whether some modes are enabled by default, should be debated before new features are merged=E2=80=99. That possibly already is how stuff happens, but we could just emphasise it as a conscious UX decision that=E2=80=99ll need to be supported once released. -- =C4=B0. G=C3=B6ktu=C4=9F Kayaalp / @cadadr / pgp: 024C 30DD 597D 142B 49AC 40EB 465C D949 B101 2427