From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?B?R8O2a3R1xJ8=?= Kayaalp Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "modern" colors Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 13:17:13 +0300 Message-ID: <87zh5urnfa.fsf@gkayaalp.com> References: <20200909165723.kdnwicwvplmezusr@Ergus> <20200910102000.2t6tsju745xutg7u@Ergus> <20200910110832.ko66gqnqo4l664d6@Ergus> <20200911134225.zhnlq7cdhmu2iraj@Ergus> <20200911221435.go7b5kz2zcvxp2ft@Ergus> <20200912153723.ymnq3i5pugqf7lsy@Ergus> <87r1r6j488.fsf@gmail.com> <87o8maj1kh.fsf@gmail.com> <874ko2t8be.fsf@gkayaalp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="8492"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.2.0; emacs 28.0.50 Cc: =?utf-8?B?R8O2a3R1xJ8=?= Kayaalp , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 13 12:18:00 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kHP55-000266-T4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 12:17:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56980 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHP55-0007L1-0G for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 06:17:59 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58706) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHP4b-0006vK-UZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 06:17:29 -0400 Original-Received: from relay8-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.201]:36135) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kHP4Z-0003dD-KH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 06:17:29 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 31.177.204.112 Original-Received: from localhost (unknown [31.177.204.112]) (Authenticated sender: self@gkayaalp.com) by relay8-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CA7CD1BF203; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 10:17:14 +0000 (UTC) In-reply-to: Received-SPF: none client-ip=217.70.183.201; envelope-from=self@gkayaalp.com; helo=relay8-d.mail.gandi.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/13 06:17:23 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255452 Archived-At: Tone down please. I don=E2=80=99t know if (and don=E2=80=99t think that--,= really) you mean it but your replies come off as rather agressive. On 2020-09-13 12:04 +03, Gregory Heytings wrote: >> On a subjective note I think we=E2=80=99re exaggerating the role of Emac= s=E2=80=99 >> looks with regards to how it affects newcomers. > Given the insane length of this thread (about 1000 emails so far), I > think not. Of course it's only "a very little, opinionated sample of > users" as you write, but one user who takes the time to come here and > to explain and defend their viewpoint is worth thousands other users > who think the same but do not want to waste their time, and just > switch to another editor. There is no reason we believe that is the case, and no reason to believe, even if that _is_ the case, that voices that _disagree_ with you represent an identical or superior amount of users. The length of the thread does not mean anything really. Except that we=E2=80=99re bikeshedding a bit, possibly. >> And it=E2=80=99s solved as easily as M-x load-theme RET modus-vivendi RET >> post Emacs 28 (or some point-release of 27 maybe?), or today with a >> simple package install. > Do you realize that what you write amounts to "In software A, B, C and > D, to get what you want, click on this button. In software E, to get > what you want, it's very easy, just type "Zk1v31!*". For them it's > almost like a secret keystroke for an easter egg in a game. How is a > new user supposed to know that they should type M-x load-theme (or M-x > customize-themes)? There is not even a menu entry for this (AFAICS). I don=E2=80=99t realise such thing. What I realise is, when I open VS Code= , I don=E2=80=99t see an option to change the theme in the menus. Instead, I h= ave to find preferences (or learn that C-, opens it), notice that it=E2=80=99s searchable, search for =E2=80=98theme=E2=80=99 (and also: know that it=E2= =80=99s theme, not colourcheme or similar), and select a theme. I don=E2=80=99t see how that= =E2=80=99s easier, especially when we have in the menu bar "Options > Customize Emacs > Custom Themes", and M-x customize-themes RET. It=E2=80=99s the same thing, rendered differently. And in this particular instance Emacs is better at it already. You=E2=80=99re also engaging in reductio ad absurdum again which serves no-= one. The said commands are English words, not some random alphanumeric sequence. -- =C4=B0. G=C3=B6ktu=C4=9F Kayaalp / @cadadr / pgp: 024C 30DD 597D 142B 49AC 40EB 465C D949 B101 2427