From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eric Abrahamsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: gnus-server-to-method crash on virtual server name in gnus-secondary-select-methods Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2021 10:41:36 -0800 Message-ID: <87zh0w3llr.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> References: <24567.20346.37031.450073@lwm.klanderman.net> <87eeivwae3.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <874kjejezr.fsf@lwm.klanderman.net> <875z3p7stg.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <8735yogb1z.fsf@lwm.klanderman.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="3453"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Greg Klanderman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Jan 25 19:43:23 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1l46pd-0000lm-1X for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 25 Jan 2021 19:43:21 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40014 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l46pc-000354-3i for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 25 Jan 2021 13:43:20 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57992) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l46o8-0002BK-BP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Jan 2021 13:41:48 -0500 Original-Received: from ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:53820 helo=mail.ericabrahamsen.net) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l46o4-0003x1-0a for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Jan 2021 13:41:47 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost (c-73-254-86-141.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [73.254.86.141]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CB32BFA0E4; Mon, 25 Jan 2021 18:41:37 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericabrahamsen.net; s=mail; t=1611600098; bh=C82WVxFQdNSB0HkVmkLZyPzV3UMyzDLpUWmOUKFbmJA=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=vdskUONy23CQXqM/mqtbzgfCUODnCPoHisIuV53irnMTL5RB6yzMxUNWjlXfUEs/l uX+1PKV06VZ1ImLeXIRwjllr9/euCMPIcqh8V3KrU4wsjH95QHdvrs8xRcpHeM+n58 V7bx1r/P5/+hP2WXmvlcqwiYvVXIOBNSxFb7O6Vo= In-Reply-To: <8735yogb1z.fsf@lwm.klanderman.net> (Greg Klanderman's message of "Mon, 25 Jan 2021 12:51:04 -0500") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=52.70.2.18; envelope-from=eric@ericabrahamsen.net; helo=mail.ericabrahamsen.net X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:263406 Archived-At: Greg Klanderman writes: > Hi Eric, > >>>>>> On January 21, 2021 Eric Abrahamsen wrote: > >>> According to >>> >>> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Servers-and-Methods.html >>> >>> not only can you use virtual server names (strings) "wherever you >>> would normally use a select method", it explicitly states you can do >>> so in 'gnus-secondary-select-method' (presumably a typo that the final >>> 's' is missing). >>> >>> So based on that alone, any code which loops over >>> gnus-secondary-select-methods taking car/cdr of elements is highly >>> suspicious. The additional information I gave just demonstrated one >>> way to reach this problematic logic. > >> I still can't believe this is the way it's supposed to be used. The code >> snippet you posted (where the error actually arises) has been that way >> since The Dawn of Time. I also don't see why you _would_ define a server >> via the *Server* buffer, and then put it again in >> `gnus-secondary-select-methods'. Generally you define servers either in >> one place or the other -- if you've done it with "a" in the *Server* >> buffer, there's no need for it to appear in your config files, too. > > Ahh I had not realized that I only needed it in one place, but it > makes total sense. Somehow I took the bit of manual I linked above to > mean I should create the server in the server buffer, then put its > name in gnus-secondary-select-methods. > > So maybe the real bug is just the documentation? I think so, I'm not aware of any code that is prepared to find a plain string inside `gnus-secondary-select-methods'. Maybe I'll open a bug for this just to make sure. >>>> I have left your other asides aside! >>> >>> No problem.. probably best to post those separately once I find the >>> right forum. >>> >>>> While this is a fine place to raise general Gnus questions/issues >>>> (the gnus.general group would be another option), >>> >>> I think you mean 'gmane.emacs.gnus.general'? It is hard to tell what >>> information on >>> >>> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Gnus-Development.html >>> >>> and >>> >>> https://www.gnus.org/resources.html >>> >>> is up-to-date; some links are clearly dead. >>> >>> Is that newsgroup still bi-directionally gatewayed with ding@gnus.org? > >> Yes, sorry, I did mean gmane.emacs.gnus.general, and yes that's still >> gatewayed to ding@gnus.org. So far as I know there's just >> gmane.emacs.gnus.general and gmane.emacs.gnus.user. I don't think >> there's any real difference anymore (probably "general" used to be more >> for development?) but you do get different people responding in the >> different groups. > > OK great, is there a gatewayed email list for gmane.emacs.gnus.user as > well? I don't think so, no. >>> Is there any way to browse archives on the web? > >>> The only reference I could find to reporting bugs is bugs@gnus.org; is >>> that current? Is there really no web-based bug tracking system? > >> Generally we report bugs from within Emacs, using M-x report-emacs-bug. >> You can see them online here: > >> https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/pkgreport.cgi?package=emacs > > Great, thank you. I'm a bit wary of M-x report-emacs-bug from work as > I suspect it would run afoul of our security policy. > > I spent quite a bit of time last week converting some more low-hanging > fruit of my xemacs config, and turning off new behaviors that > disagreed with me, so I've got Emacs in a bit more tolerable state for > editing. > > My biggest concern now with fully transitioning, other than a lot more > time, is how slow it is over ssh forwarded X11. As I said xemacs is > perfectly snappy, but Emacs is taking sometimes 30-60+ sec just to > create a new frame. > > I turned off tooltips which seemed to be causing much of the latency > issues, then it seemed that toolbars & menubars were the issue because > after dragging another window over an Emacs frame, everything would > redraw immediately but the menubars and toolbars, which could again > take 30-60+ seconds with Emacs being essentially frozen to input. > Switching gtk to lucid (Debian testing) did not make appreciable > difference. > > I've now noticed that the problem only occurs when a frame of > an Emacs is dragged over another frame of the same Emacs, so I suspect > some problem with the event handling loop. I will submit a bug > report; this is perfectly reproducible with emacs -Q after ssh'ing > from my work laptop (on home network) to my work desktop (in office > 30mi away) and then back to my personal home desktop, even with > tooltips/tool bars/menu bars/scroll bars off. > > And then I'll get back to Gnus.. We'll be here :)