From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Development Speed Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2021 18:22:18 +0800 Message-ID: <87zgotos6d.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <87sfulx86y.fsf@telefonica.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="35438"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.60 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 22 11:23:29 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mzymO-00091P-Nv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 22 Dec 2021 11:23:28 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40038 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mzymN-0003nC-50 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 22 Dec 2021 05:23:27 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57516) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mzylT-000386-ED for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Dec 2021 05:22:32 -0500 Original-Received: from sonic313-56.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.185.31]:46543) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mzylR-0003E4-Gh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Dec 2021 05:22:31 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1640168547; bh=Ynm/xhTUNeiXR8vrSPhDSE6hJ+XZDXLBvK/lUBCDZH4=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=E0NQNHNx3UqAAVzKYuMQCg9GRsOem0XEGXUi5dhsLVMyAcqPXQK219vbL+AvCijfi1bVR+cS3N0Nw6bl81eP1VQwUZkJfHNLKwsxoQ1AbT+8rdNvTfc/Zd++tXF3HASahia58DS9IVVcOQfzRTZweOIOS+cbyhdrLfu0l9Rc9fVybtlEdSy9Sbmg45q/BLYBsEkFJvaLIO/cXQ5RLuzQG3Lx5NSjjhsV6/3myKVgC4rRzuRtJxS1XclVGCmcllhPaSyCzaeFqSWpZpaZ5s3frCzH4VZJcbr9UkEVcu+hHn2vlgTSWdVRHobSZP7cywApJqGBTyEcYh/KT9gZXmukPA== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1640168547; bh=xEd0sAY9Eri49UtaCEcSI0/mXLCWy60WX4nYG1c7ug2=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=GmnwCrdsnpuTDVDXH6m/ctYSH0/KV8mTzJES/6KCZWwVFFqNNPjVvxUO9b8oEe8afezOFTJZVIa6oX3jV4Wk/JORFRc+H/auG8zl+E9ijwyhF7iVUGXMSUvySr3uVWRuEzFCv8tA4jcrlhonM973t6E88VwqVbWaJMvR3JM2u3AhIiOx3PmpmO8CQ2VNzIl+FQsoYuOCejW0T1v+oayjnZhISYYtl+bLs87+NFjELuzljWeV1f/SeeM2d8c/YGexiz5hKm1SxyCSMeCBmftKodu4lSGuOjfbTivWpkHnLVp5IYBzN3RFEyLl2WW27tUhPm4Z2JkLSHExuFvg941qvg== X-YMail-OSG: Z_sY9DIVM1l6wTBQGeQ21ctx8vI8s3R_Bk0LBIrPc0Ldr0ISBJDnCxfaagMmfz7 KuiU60liO.VM697WpiJN0VapMiD6CGO6C4lVwv2DaduDi6XB91wMp1vh6KOOe1NGdQlncPaLG3Yv p0c3x23nB3f0eLBJK1TuDlyI6DqbB9xK2BcV8PmSGwyZnO__J7I7B.5puh8ckIWNPs0FZrQf_yVF Z6J8vsGvnmXACiybrLiMsB0kugvo8boQbzPT5XSMI7DL0oOY296S3H2vymLVP0fz.T4qjPhajo.L MO.56Gsqf6nSdtMEIF6ZTPlJlu8aPMnVhRHDhHvU05WESe1G26HnPIfujaqPS5rFgsnrqle4dIsh BKj.WZnZt2TY0syUumLjETNtKo_85wF_UhYUx.XPkjJdOyZMClxwIa23lMKdHwvE0iEyuMEjfmuX hn5uo8zLd2Nb2DKJNnItEN62zgaY2lf6e7HxrJ4ZL1bQE0kkXUh9BO9XYV8ngjOKJ6yJlwX3328d VbnkvwWjWiZcPAVsaAfdmHBZVq1k9G_eeA_fJhi5_giqrIBz.Dy42WCkb2FLT9rQ4.ghn.vL4fvP Awt9MRQCUqsy3QPVxhbVIckTB_tNb7pgx7UoCAsXfdPpAlpuP7EWGaCcHiR2mwNQXBY7Ezu7TPdM PlvrSDkYzTbkan4La3SJuLTYDJYg2MrvZIzItYbb1_Ga8ejETIOUjhoUgX.ma1d1mljU1Ru4Pa7m MPAmPwF.wyaBmSVuyFfzB6nXJGdTnDvR72hSOl8sFd2M9n0rMfw.nlCw6kDRUKPi8dVgBTqy5uPJ JlvhzMkTD15cWVLy0WNEUEfVyolJT0gWkm150HAPDA X-Sonic-MF: Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic313.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Wed, 22 Dec 2021 10:22:27 +0000 Original-Received: by kubenode518.mail-prod1.omega.sg3.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID bee4d973f744f0edb831701cbb3abd8b; Wed, 22 Dec 2021 10:22:22 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <87sfulx86y.fsf@telefonica.net> (=?utf-8?Q?=22=C3=93scar?= Fuentes"'s message of "Wed, 22 Dec 2021 11:09:09 +0100") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.19498 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.185.31; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic313-56.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:282702 Archived-At: =C3=93scar Fuentes writes: > This is not about having the latest GCC, this is about having a GCC > that's less than 10 years old. Simple example: GCC 3.4.x does not support C17, and it's recommended for building the MS-DOS port, which doesn't only run on MS-DOS, but also builds and runs on its free and actively developed replacement FreeDOS, and also MS-Windows. > Aren't there modern machines without this? Machines that are much more > performant, reliable and secure than those old ones, which usually are > tied to an unsupported OS full of security defects? There are no others that are easy to obtain. We don't want to just make it possible for people to use Emacs with free software, but we also want to make it easy. > I sincerely don't get the stance of clinging to decades-old software and > hardware but when it comes to Emacs it must be the latest and shiniest. Why is that? > As if emacs version N would cease to work the very moment emacs version > N+1 is released. Indeed, aside from Tramp and a few other packages, code remaining compatible with older versions of Emacs is a rarity nowadays. > Have we checked lately if those machines that we purport to support are > able to run anything more complex than `emacs -Q'? Yes. For example, I tried quite a few things with the MS-DOS port, and thanks to that, it works on Emacs 28 now. The same situation exists with Windows 9x. At work, we have a 9x system for running legacy applications, and having Emacs 27 installed on that system is really convenient. And yes, that Emacs installation is regularly used. > The amount of tension and obstructionism that emerges every time that > someone suggests implementing some technology less than 20 years old is > overwhelming. We already use the features of C11 and C17 where they are available. That doesn't mean we have to go out of our way to break the build on C99, which is regularly tested.