From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Adding use-package to ELPA Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2022 00:02:28 +0000 Message-ID: <87zgm2bpez.fsf@posteo.net> References: <87k0dbi7ol.fsf@posteo.net> <871qzgyfuo.fsf@posteo.net> <87ilsre5jf.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="27627"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: EMACS development team To: chad Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 07 01:03:24 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nR0qR-000702-FK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2022 01:03:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57456 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nR0qQ-0002yF-B6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 06 Mar 2022 19:03:22 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:56248) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nR0pl-0002Iv-JN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Mar 2022 19:02:41 -0500 Original-Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:35719) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nR0pj-0005vj-AP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Mar 2022 19:02:41 -0500 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 89B8C240103 for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 01:02:35 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1646611355; bh=2vEb5YPn1RjeEX5uD8SLA7x/fSbRwGolSB9EB3Y82Ks=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:From; b=AYMQQN1IWl8DQioEQI5fTWNDEh0jvXbbF7a52nRLV23UjjUmDFlNAeiFFQnl9bX+Z NdMBRA8TCEe82RljdzBKMngqQweygrp/TFaigX+vK4vXI4rEHIaLAvOBDiWTxXCT2n qlGNJX0q8LS5WF6T2zUHhJB5vrhEled0qKdpNcKZhtSCyk8MQOL0S5rCiRzMROR5v2 f8oZWA3prFP7OMG4/zqjA2k8umLlyXybODNvT6hHKEo+yqCoH/jyJcyIRKX4cVd9Y9 3fneWACIlz1foWh3WHDhoSabrNSN5CHoluHcOnokHc1bk9bNSAc+oL7X9FaWsG6yK4 t4QnD1PVd1b8w== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4KBdty6vPkz9rxP; Mon, 7 Mar 2022 01:02:34 +0100 (CET) Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; prefer-encrypt=nopreference; keydata= mDMEYHHqUhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAp3GdmYJ6tm5McweY6dEvIYIiry+Oz9rU4MH6NHWK0Ee0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiQBBMWCAA4FiEEDM2H44ZoPt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwMFCwkIBwIGFQoJ CAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQtVrAHPRh1FyTkgEAjlbGPxFchvMbxzAES3r8QLuZgCxeAXunM9gh io0ePtUBALVhh9G6wIoZhl0gUCbQpoN/UJHI08Gm1qDob5zDxnIHuDgEYHHqUhIKKwYBBAGXVQEF AQEHQNcRB+MUimTMqoxxMMUERpOR+Q4b1KgncDZkhrO2ql1tAwEIB4h4BBgWCAAgFiEEDM2H44Zo Pt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwwACgkQtVrAHPRh1Fw1JwD/Qo7kvtib8jy7puyWrSv0MeTS g8qIxgoRWJE/KKdkCLEA/jb9b9/g8nnX+UcwHf/4VfKsjExlnND3FrBviXUW6NcB In-Reply-To: (John Wiegley's message of "Sun, 06 Mar 2022 15:06:45 -0800") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:286867 Archived-At: "John Wiegley" writes: >>>>>> "PK" == Philip Kaludercic writes: > > PK> The less concrete reason is tied to me being the maintainer of a > PK> alternative package (setup on ELPA), that takes a different approach to > PK> the issue of a configuration macro. As you can imagine, I prefer it over > PK> `use-package', that I see as having inconsistencies and idiosyncrasies, > PK> that should be addressed if it were added to the core. > > My only desire is the least inertia for users. Personally, I'd prefer it if > setup, leaf and use-package were all in core, and let the user decide which > one they wish to require at startup time. These types of packages are a bit > special, because -- since they configure everything else -- it's best if they > need the least configuration to become available. But I also understand that > we tend to pick "a way" when something goes into core, and this results in > maintainers having to make a choice of one over the other. FWIW, as the maintainer of setup, I would strongly advise not to add it to the core, as the package is far less mature. I don't know enough about leaf to say anything about the package, though it seems to be that adding both would be superfluous, as they are relatively similar. My point with adding use-package to ELPA is that it already simplifies the configuration to (unless (package-installed-p 'use-package) (package-install 'use-package)) without having to first configure MELPA. How much of a difference this makes is of course a different discussion. > At the moment my only compelling evidence for use-package I find is its > current ubiquity. Most Emacs package I come across on GitHub these days offer > a use-package form for configuration. It would be nice if these could be > copied and pasted into one's .emacs with an absolute minimum of extra fuss. I agree, if any configuration macro were to be added, it would have to be use-package, if anything just because of this point. > But I'm not asserting that use-package is the best solution to the underlying > problem. I am interested to know more about the idiosyncrasies you've found. > The core of use-package has become highly user-configurable, so maybe it's a > problem that can be changed. I stopped using use-package ~2 years ago, so I don't remember the details, but it could sketch up a few points that could be discussed, and perhaps be addressed or at least acknowledged before adding the package to the core. -- Philip Kaludercic