From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Abysmal state of GTK build Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2022 15:36:12 +0200 Message-ID: <87zgfxlnw3.fsf@gnus.org> References: <87ilmlluxq.fsf.ref@yahoo.com> <87ilmlluxq.fsf@yahoo.com> <87h725olz1.fsf@gnus.org> <8735dplo5d.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5901"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Po Lu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 21 15:38:44 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oPlA3-0001MD-Lb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 21 Aug 2022 15:38:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48750 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oPlA2-0002hH-8X for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 21 Aug 2022 09:38:42 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45146) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oPl7k-0008C5-N7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Aug 2022 09:36:20 -0400 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2]:60344) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oPl7j-0001xd-60 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Aug 2022 09:36:20 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=IdECEcXHhq6igU9OUfokFqZVTjP9X3ER8rxbH5KTSl4=; b=cWtc/hyCymZiSpsAQlYqoR+DrI 0xbcntEX/IIfsQxCaK2RM0G6f7IiE8iGyaL3YU/QfNoD3nY9GC5Pd34k48DPxWhdqeWM22UE9ZTcp iY3gbKqMrl0Pl05ft/SFEBVXR0LsQC3Ds8w11UqeluRS9YPh88U+RNdIiU9KWKJvZkog=; Original-Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oPl7d-0002Pb-AB; Sun, 21 Aug 2022 15:36:15 +0200 In-Reply-To: <8735dplo5d.fsf@yahoo.com> (Po Lu's message of "Sun, 21 Aug 2022 21:30:38 +0800") Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAADFBMVEUGBgVfVEGxppL/ //9ztTv8AAAAAWJLR0QDEQxM8gAAAAlwSFlzAAAuGAAALhgBKqonIAAAAAd0SU1FB+YIFQ0aNbU4 E/gAAAFWSURBVCjPVdJBb4IwFAfwV1LI5MQSMZPzdnCfoiZsyW5oWjM47aCL8Cn8CC6RRT15oIb2 U659UHFc6C8t/9e+AvDvYT6/jb0m0MwhaEDvHEJF5P4GvZK1W5fI5fWUOaiV4g40FoSPgTQoiwy8 1o6JzKTITCimbYPSltMY0CQfA1g1Mt8DIpzmoxxedohAFuoNxrLCtHouCHuaIoBDTIDSHtGamhfW CVQh7dbaLjpZ23fT4RXP9oUgpckAcsGieZFzbAV2x5MGYevqmDRyZR18u+Da4OEmJz+FoDybKU/O NU+jkfo1FUJJzpBGU1VfbBPfFfhRro5re96FFqZhZftsm7jUNaPRTJmZcCPkgkGWWJgm/gjEAQEG +1hbCE5ERtijPuJ2IAXCYv3Z3URmMK627v4Io1V5A9DyNOBho+5mmtnwo/h1eIdDMGDCvvtRZNBd V78MCvgDE8FdXnGbZBAAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjItMDgtMjFUMTM6MjY6NTMrMDA6 MDBdhuNmAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOm1vZGlmeQAyMDIyLTA4LTIxVDEzOjI2OjUzKzAwOjAwLNtb2gAA AABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: Secs's _Doer_: "Plow & Flay Featuring Samuel T Herring" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2; envelope-from=larsi@gnus.org; helo=quimby.gnus.org X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:293701 Archived-At: Po Lu writes: > Besides, how is that related to the success of Microsoft's VS Code? It shows exactly what I said it shows. > The toolbar icons come from GNOME 2.x, so they are already consistent > and (mostly) put together by designers. Aside from the ugly cross icon, > which really has to go. They all have to go before we make a change in the defaults. > Just turn off the internal border, or specify the color of the internal > border in your X resources. This isn't about me, it's about the default look. It has to be fixed before we default to no-toolkit. >> 5) The scroll bar has to be fixed to work as modern scroll bars to, not >> emulate the actions of an 80s Xterm. I.e., you have to be able to drag >> the scrool widget, and click above and below it, and have the thing >> happen that normal users expect. > > I disagree, but that behavior should be made customizable. The > "no-toolkit" scroll bar in general is a big hack that is not portable to > platforms other than X. Yes, of course it should be customisable. But the default must be to work in the way normal users expect these days.