From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Max Brieiev Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs design and architecture Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2023 10:23:21 +0300 Message-ID: <87zg1naoie.fsf@gmail.com> References: <873503y66i.fsf@yahoo.com> <87fs3ur9u8.fsf@dataswamp.org> <875y4moiiq.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83r0n4rj78.fsf@gnu.org> <83cyynpmvd.fsf@gnu.org> <838r99mh40.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6nwlmt4.fsf@gnu.org> <456d12ac-ecf4-3de4-56bb-a2440580777f@gutov.dev> <83a5tokmsv.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="27667"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Dmitry Gutov , owinebar@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Yuri Khan Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 15 09:24:15 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qh3BW-0006xd-SL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 15 Sep 2023 09:24:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qh3Ao-0000Nw-EV; Fri, 15 Sep 2023 03:23:30 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qh3An-0000No-DS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 15 Sep 2023 03:23:29 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ej1-x632.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::632]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qh3Al-0005HU-Sa; Fri, 15 Sep 2023 03:23:29 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ej1-x632.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-99c93638322so395067166b.1; Fri, 15 Sep 2023 00:23:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1694762605; x=1695367405; darn=gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :mail-followup-to:references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to :cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=fSnuuXR5ddVntOOdA0zFFHGpqVpNCkOgQw63Dxb7c8s=; b=BMIv9CTUgowMkJanw+wOpdzu8GlFcWvJYAohd+LxQPsSuwBeO2YI/j2Dm/JvOdl+kJ 1K2EMSGTpoqf/4ncw68A/FQgOj0OY64FGEC2m9wLz8R0dB6tB+diBRzRN1dF3q/zwUq9 x0tskP/bUloFBCv1BaC6Y5E2c2P9xVh/IWfNo1p2YxukYqyAWzdTyO1/PCIEDByf9YjR nwfg62e2C0Kl3Z1k3tVRaVP9tawrXH12sEt4ilqJIepteM88uTtLbE6umYSh6NQNJx3J BL6cpKg4p2UMnsPavTdEEgO9OGTLPlCQrK094ZBGwzKE35vGdjLVTG9znfiIIrAhx44H gxcg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1694762605; x=1695367405; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :mail-followup-to:references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=fSnuuXR5ddVntOOdA0zFFHGpqVpNCkOgQw63Dxb7c8s=; b=NfUpeDp7oI8oN1nHZaF+LIhcLHalXvmOnIsmjOmaRzNEQbJWnCcbng0U3dUmLgdjko fKFzZDDmDM87s/TOkYVS0eTA9e3cHP2qTIbgo0zNS+Tvd8FmPz1WsrhLvzCHLfO3xHJO kvtB/IKFufdjB1/K1/NOIJWoNx01kwyskQvfXz/sL1WApMpZs5Wnj+tbN87QPRDxE05k 692fZqzNg1qXIGQoS6N6l/8pnF0gPj66cgcLhDNg0bkfQDLbj7sbxtY13KdWMWIOj+pn V+sMEY5mepYQ44TBwiB9yHkZpK/TgFTmcdHqa1UnB0z8BfPfk0wpEblZm0wlRbLaY7Mr /A0A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yx2T2/CKdm/I0bZX6Va+Dbg7+C6x0l7w7pkC/on5fmm9/NNUzfA KU2DspogFlWtbHpe7sS8TV20k2e36t9iuQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFL5wDd5tN9usM/SIqoAeP9yaZsPeeQRWbLCvb5RgsjtbkuDEKKvx8sN80tMb2YnGrVnVDDxg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:58c9:b0:9ad:87df:4126 with SMTP id e9-20020a17090658c900b009ad87df4126mr5528014ejs.1.1694762604615; Fri, 15 Sep 2023 00:23:24 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from vmax ([109.251.233.9]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id lg13-20020a170906f88d00b009828e26e519sm1995595ejb.122.2023.09.15.00.23.22 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 15 Sep 2023 00:23:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Yuri Khan's message of "Fri, 15 Sep 2023 13:51:56 +0700") Mail-Followup-To: Yuri Khan , Eli Zaretskii , Dmitry Gutov , owinebar@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::632; envelope-from=max.brieiev@gmail.com; helo=mail-ej1-x632.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:310593 Archived-At: Yuri Khan writes: > On Fri, 15 Sept 2023 at 12:51, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> One of the important aspects to keep in mind in this regard is that >> Emacs must give Lisp programs dynamic control of how stuff is >> displayed, and should be able to exercise that control at high >> frequency (a trivial example: pulse.el). > > In CSS, this is solved in core with transitions. A style specifies > that a certain property will change gradually, provides its target > value, the transition duration, and a transition curve. The styling > engine does all the work about calculating the intermediate values and > re-layouting each intermediate frame; the page author does not have to > script carefully timed property changes, and is in fact discouraged > from doing so because doing that in Javascript incurs CPU and battery > usage overhead. > > The use case of pulse.el would be translated to a couple of styles > that say effectively =E2=80=9CA pulsed span will instantly gain yellow > background=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CA non-pulsed span will linearly revert t= o whatever > background it had over the course of 200 milliseconds=E2=80=9D and a small > function that sets the span to pulsed and then immediately to > non-pulsed. > > (Implementing a CSS engine over a character terminal is a nontrivial > matter though.) CSS is tricky and very hard to get right. This is the reason CSS frameworks like Tailwind or Bootstrap exist. I think building user interfaces with SVG is more plausible. It is the same DOM model, it is reactive, and its display is very consistent (unlike HTML/CSS combo).