From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Bastien Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why Emacs needs a modern bug tracker Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 23:32:04 +0000 Message-ID: <87y7b3q26j.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> References: <20080104164454.0A4BD830697@snark.thyrsus.com> <20080104232514.GB2735@muc.de> <87r6gxoyjv.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87abnkq6ei.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1199576026 28032 80.91.229.12 (5 Jan 2008 23:33:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 23:33:46 +0000 (UTC) Cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3scar?= Fuentes To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 06 00:34:07 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JBIWh-00079C-2k for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2008 00:34:04 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JBIWH-0007GS-8k for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 18:33:37 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JBIVB-0005mV-PF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 18:32:29 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JBIV6-0005hq-RV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 18:32:29 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JBIV6-0005hi-Jx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 18:32:24 -0500 Original-Received: from hu-out-0506.google.com ([72.14.214.238]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JBIV5-0006un-5K for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 18:32:24 -0500 Original-Received: by hu-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 23so1018793huc.1 for ; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 15:32:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:received:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:sender; bh=SKVkLH3SOfWrwYQJxSNdyPoNTSw606rj/XG+HeHAOm4=; b=eKLkxH2iBdz9Nu1jpF16vRB5C6GJrKZrHXQfwwbx7godVdiYfYepwjOQ2cbzi7ow52NbpusGYXJTyisAs4QGgZnnfDuMRS66RnWOlR1dBiE8UyJwpVS4a/z/+eJCPpdYOL9C3YOy1dZw7xf2gGCW0yycW071Dag51wm60ry1iiU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:sender; b=PuyUZlIcDWPYF73pEN3YH7H2RQDD4YJGMXkvwlbgWJGdtvAAlCbBRfq4cm+bGUH7dmY1ncIvwlVsCn2PezQFv6LMDkvQDQ0Ta7GtYgGk89Wo1XGSK2gv3I57KN/IykkOKOmrEhwMun7dbKUjIxGxvid/1FlLkyl4QZhl2GXvESk= Original-Received: by 10.78.190.10 with SMTP id n10mr21554038huf.37.1199575927395; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 15:32:07 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from bzg.ath.cx ( [81.157.28.72]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h4sm23846738nfh.8.2008.01.05.15.32.05 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 05 Jan 2008 15:32:06 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by bzg.ath.cx (Postfix, from userid 1000) id EE8C7157977; Sat, 5 Jan 2008 23:32:04 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: (=?iso-8859-1?Q?=22=D3scar?= Fuentes"'s message of "Sat, 05 Jan 2008 23:21:43 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110007 (No Gnus v0.7) Emacs/23.0.0 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:86260 Archived-At: Óscar Fuentes writes: > Bastien writes: > >> Óscar Fuentes writes: >> >>> The advantages of a living database over a static text file are too >>> large to enumerate. >> >> org-mode does pretty well in handling text files *dynamically* from >> within Emacs. > [snip] > > Sorry, but org-mode is no match for a proper bug system. Just quoting myself: Of course, having better TODO and PROBLEMS files does not help when it comes to let users send bug reports. But making things easier for the developers and making things easiers for the users are two distincts issues, which may be addressed with distinct tools. I think that using org-mode can help Emacs developers to make a more effective use of the Emacs TODO file. This sounds like a reasonable (i.e. incremental, Emacs-based) proposal in the context of this long discussion about productivity enhancement. > Do you expect end users filling well-structured bug reports on a plain > text file? No. I expect users will continue sending bug reports thru emails, then people filtering these reports and feed an Org database. If the reports are well-formatted enought, this filtering could also be automated, just as it will be with a normal bug tracker. > How do you perform complex queries? Org lets you perform any search/query you want. > What to do with closed bugs? You put the item in a close state. Usually by associating the entry with the DONE to-do keyword. > What happens when the file grows to several dozen megabytes? The TODO file distributed with Emacs could contains only the main issues, while the full TODO could live elsewhere. > How do you store attached files? What to do with test cases that > includes text in arbitrary encodings? As I said, having a better TODO file would not replace the mailing list as a primary tool. It would just help with filtering the issues, knowing about their status, who's in charge, etc. > How do you integrate e-mail traffic on emacs-devel and emacs-*-bugs > into the text file without hammering the VCS with thousands of commits > per month just for storing discussions and other activity about bugs? Have a separate TODO file. > Will org-mode notify a maintainer when a bug is assigned to him? A cron job could go through the TODO.org file, gather issues that someone is in charge of, and send the headlines to him. But my point is not that org-mode can be used as a bug tracker. It is that you can use org-mode to improve the way the TODO file is currently used. Actually, using org to improve the TODO file as an internal tool and using whatever bug tracker you want for users are not exclusive. But I won't insist too much on this, there is enough passion in this thread :) -- Bastien