From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Transient Mark Mode on by default Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2008 02:20:18 +0200 Message-ID: <87y77ybf3x.fsf@kfs-lx.rd.rdm> References: <87myopnj0l.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <20080324200911.GA1310@muc.de> <001e01c88dee$34267e90$c2b22382@us.oracle.com> <20080324210229.GB1310@muc.de> <47F128AA.6000905@emf.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1207009263 9464 80.91.229.12 (1 Apr 2008 00:21:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 00:21:03 +0000 (UTC) Cc: M Jared Finder , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Thomas Lord Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 01 02:21:33 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JgUFp-0007Pw-90 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Apr 2008 02:21:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JgUFD-0006fZ-53 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:20:55 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JgUEv-0006Yo-Cj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:20:37 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JgUEt-0006YA-Tz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:20:36 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JgUEt-0006Y4-OP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:20:35 -0400 Original-Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk ([195.41.46.236]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JgUEn-0001nM-5I; Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:20:29 -0400 Original-Received: from kfs-lx.rd.rdm.cua.dk (0x503e2644.bynxx19.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk [80.62.38.68]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 4024BF84027; Tue, 1 Apr 2008 02:20:19 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <47F128AA.6000905@emf.net> (Thomas Lord's message of "Mon\, 31 Mar 2008 11\:08\:42 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.1.92 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:94076 Archived-At: Thomas Lord writes: > That doesn't give a "modal" system where sometimes C-v means > scroll-down and other times it means PASTE. With CUA on, C-v always means paste, so it is not modal. Neither is C-z (undo). C-x and C-c are modal with CUA on, but have you actually tried it? In practice, it is very rarely notiable. Of course, I've used Emacs before CUA came along - but I wrote CUA -- and still use it -- because it drove me crazy to have to use different control sequences in Emacs than in every other application I used. And since Emacs was the only application that was different, I decided to implement the necessary functions to make it work _good enough_ to make me switch comfortably between Emacs and other applications. > Emacs documentation will still be saying things like "Use C-x f to > open a file." That's a burden on new users who elect to remap > C-x to CUT (and some other key to C-x). But it's a small burden > because it's just those few keys and the rules about how to type those > characters apply consistently, all the time. So to avoid the (tranparent) modal behaviour of CUA, you shuffle everything around instead. I don't see that as a better - or simpler - solution. At least it is a solution to a problem which doesn't exist IMHO. > > -t > > > Richard Stallman wrote: >> Shift-selection is fine, but I don't think we should change the >> meaning of C-c, C-v and C-x. >> >> All else being equal, it would be better to be compatible with other >> programs, including in this. But all else is not equal, and this >> change would not fit into Emacs. In practice, it fits very well, but I have no problem with it being an option which you have to turn on explicitly. But it would be nice to mention it on the splash screen. Also, if shift-select is implemented as default, I think many users will be utterly confused if C-x doesn't do cut and C-c doesn't copy. So all-in-all I really don't see why everybody is making a lot of fuzz over making shift-select a 1st class emacs feature -- when we could just as well just leave it to CUA mode to DTRT, but possibly make a few enhancements to basic Emacs functionalities to assist CUA mode to do its work. But once again, I know this is a lost battle... -- Kim F. Storm http://www.cua.dk