From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs contributions, C and Lisp Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2014 10:02:01 +0100 Message-ID: <87y50qibg6.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <83bnxuzyl4.fsf@gnu.org> <871tyqes5q.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87a9ddg7o8.fsf@engster.org> <87d2i9ee8t.fsf@engster.org> <874n3ke1qn.fsf@engster.org> <87sir336qn.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <20140301215057.GA19461@thyrsus.com> <87fvn1y0vx.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87fvn0senq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <8761nusb90.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1393923725 15159 80.91.229.3 (4 Mar 2014 09:02:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 09:02:05 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 04 10:02:14 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WKlEs-0002bV-Ig for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2014 10:02:14 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43770 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WKlEr-0004cV-PD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2014 04:02:13 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39485) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WKlEo-0004cG-Kr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2014 04:02:11 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WKlEn-0006mW-AP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2014 04:02:10 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:35022) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WKlEn-0006mS-33 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Mar 2014 04:02:09 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42198 helo=lola) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WKlEg-0007DD-8R; Tue, 04 Mar 2014 04:02:02 -0500 Original-Received: by lola (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C2BBDDF3DC; Tue, 4 Mar 2014 10:02:01 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: <8761nusb90.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (Stephen J. Turnbull's message of "Tue, 04 Mar 2014 15:56:11 +0900") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:170129 Archived-At: "Stephen J. Turnbull" writes: > Richard Stallman writes: > > > Reciprocity is an aspect of the point of the GNU GPL, but its main > > point is _defending users' freedom_. > > Conceded. > > > With the GNU GPL (and copyleft in general), we make sure that all > > copies of all versions of our code _respect users' freedom_. > > That's a nice euphemism for *dis*respect for the users. You treat > them like children, Are we still talking about a world where the dominant government form is representative democracy (in the U.S., the self-declared bastion of freedom, even filtered through an additional layer of electors) rather than anarchy? The closest you can get to an actual democracy nowadays probably is Switzerland, and it's not like that kind of system would be popular elsewhere. And it's still to a good degree based on representatives. A large part of public life is regulated by laws, conventions, taxation simply because people cannot be bothered to think about the consequences of their actions. The GNU project does not treat its users like children, but it also does not bet its fate on everybody behaving in a responsible manner by default. If it did, there would not have been the GPL to start with. Or even the necessity to start the GNU project at all. > fearing they will abuse their freedom by choosing bondage to > proprietary software rather than choosing less capable free software, > or even just saying no to the unique benefits of some proprietary > software. The GNU project is not democratic. The FSF sets and pursues its policies and everyone is free to join or not for whatever reason he wants. That does not mean that the FSF is under any obligation to cater for any particular reason. Indeed, it has remained remarkably constant in its original goals and aims even though users of GNU software have easily increased more than a millionfold from GNU's starts. Of course, this attracts attention leading to alternative options with watered-down guarantees. And their availability in turn impacts the adoption numbers of GNU. Of course, an economist will cry "_now_ is the time to sell out, it doesn't get any better than that". Which actually tends to be the end result of almost every revolution, sometimes by eating its leaders alive, sometimes waiting for them to fade from life or significance first. -- David Kastrup