From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Oleh Krehel Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: IDE Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 12:37:32 +0100 Message-ID: <87y4el52ir.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87612a7my2.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <561DC925.5050001@siege-engine.com> <561E32D2.4060501@yandex.ru> <83wpum3ozk.fsf@gnu.org> <87si59ln6u.fsf@isaac.fritz.box> <56224B63.3010803@yandex.ru> <562592ED.1070104@siege-engine.com> <56262577.70107@yandex.ru> <562702C2.6070505@gmail.com> <56276ECE.3090508@yandex.ru> <56281747.9050305@gmail.com> <56282664.3000409@yandex.ru> <56283D79.2070904@gmail.com> <5628C5E7.5060803@yandex.ru> <5628DD6C.6000408@gmail.com> <56303005.4030808@yandex.ru> <87r3ke6i8s.fsf@gmail.com> <56320282.2020405@yandex.ru> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1446118662 8813 80.91.229.3 (29 Oct 2015 11:37:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 11:37:42 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eric Ludlam , David Engster , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 29 12:37:34 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZrlWL-00021o-RM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 29 Oct 2015 12:37:29 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43476 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZrlWL-00043U-D9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 29 Oct 2015 07:37:29 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39811) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZrlW0-0003yZ-Nu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Oct 2015 07:37:09 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZrlVx-0005Fs-IO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Oct 2015 07:37:08 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wm0-x230.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c09::230]:38816) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZrlVx-0005Fm-CS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Oct 2015 07:37:05 -0400 Original-Received: by wmeg8 with SMTP id g8so23248172wme.1 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2015 04:37:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=YQMm3/+qS7DM0yJqedU/dsAPfwIuIGCJiKaxuH8Tgjg=; b=AgKnE33h3KLiSuueuF5+PBSjU2Wg2I1kci9kk03cvx2ivXz/Oypheve9CVHxLnFgkd MSXgYEqVd4ONLZYlC3TlJAS1QXZiyd6Hr/yBKCf62U+o2q6IbTKA0UenF3oUX3aB+7oG HCZDyLgwEM5usjBv8/OT3+vFiBFpITbzgWz8An+uUd7CzYAWWzPKwvxJ9ddT/VfQHNCA nsWEadgbX90QsPfOQMRsQ5aZu/9qhVtkAtT196CJiLoLzwHKg+Dt5ZUG3BPvD8k4o8JB jl7K9nT7P8qjn6T2Gvlxq6PtQ3tmG4aczUJHbqp6xwRFXtMD5JT2OYvWq4/KZE7zCe9Y UO/g== X-Received: by 10.28.52.12 with SMTP id b12mr5902595wma.16.1446118624936; Thu, 29 Oct 2015 04:37:04 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from firefly (dyn069045.nbw.tue.nl. [131.155.69.45]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id an7sm1325833wjc.44.2015.10.29.04.37.03 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 29 Oct 2015 04:37:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <56320282.2020405@yandex.ru> (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Thu, 29 Oct 2015 13:26:58 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c09::230 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:192879 Archived-At: Dmitry Gutov writes: > On 10/29/2015 01:12 PM, Oleh Krehel wrote: > >> I targeted C++ because that's a language that I use a lot and I needed >> support for. > > Makes sense. Why make it C++-specific, though? It works for C as well. I was using a lot of C++ templates at that time. And Semantic didn't display them nicely. >> Dynamic languages like JavaScript/Ruby/Python/Elisp/CL/Clojure/Scheme >> don't need to rely on Semantic for tags info, they can just get it from >> the REPL. It's still a choice, and both things can work and cooperate. > > C++ can get it from rtags or irony-mode. And "just get it from the > REPL" is a big simplification. Well, I know that the mentioned lisps can really get this info from the REPL. Of course, the restriction is that the code needs to be loaded. The same applies to Jedi and mozrepl/tern, I guess. Not sure if there's any good similar tooling for Ruby. >> However, for static languages like C++ Semantic is the only choice for >> getting the tag metadata. Which other popular language is in the static >> camp? Only Java, the rest I label as hipster, no offense. > > a) Why is the dynamic/static distinction important for function-args? > Ruby and Python, for instance, have function signatures that don't > look too different from C++/Java ones. The thing is that function-args adds some functionality that would be missing otherwise for C++. Ruby and Python already have some of this functionality by extracting it from the REPL. Of course, it would be nice to make it work everywhere, but it's not urgent if the gap is already filled by something else, e.g. Jedi. > b) There's Scala, and the fairly popular ENSIME. They are working on > Java support, by the way: > https://github.com/ensime/ensime-server/issues/345 That's nice. But somehow I don't see why anyone would not just use Clojure if you need a JVM hosted language.