From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: reftex.el autoloads Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2015 21:15:46 +0000 Message-ID: <87y4czz7ul.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <87h9jqo9a5.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83wpsm9skk.fsf@gnu.org> <87y4d22c7f.fsf@russet.org.uk> <831tata1mg.fsf@gnu.org> <87d1udxaky.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83mvth6jsa.fsf@gnu.org> <87poycvrp7.fsf@russet.org.uk> <566B2BFC.1070802@cs.ucla.edu> <877fkj1q5j.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83si375x03.fsf@gnu.org> <8737v71oo0.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83r3ir5vrb.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1449954981 6528 80.91.229.3 (12 Dec 2015 21:16:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2015 21:16:21 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rgm@gnu.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 12 22:16:12 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1a7rWW-0006gF-7Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Dec 2015 22:16:12 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53038 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a7rWV-0008GO-Eq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Dec 2015 16:16:11 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58324) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a7rWJ-0008GF-Rp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Dec 2015 16:16:00 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a7rWI-0000cn-MI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Dec 2015 16:15:59 -0500 Original-Received: from cheviot22.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.234.22]:59645) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1a7rWB-0000c8-5U; Sat, 12 Dec 2015 16:15:51 -0500 Original-Received: from smtpauth-vm.ncl.ac.uk ([10.8.233.129] helo=smtpauth.ncl.ac.uk) by cheviot22.ncl.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1a7rW9-0006BZ-ET; Sat, 12 Dec 2015 21:15:49 +0000 Original-Received: from cpc6-benw10-2-0-cust45.gate.cable.virginm.net ([92.238.179.46] helo=localhost) by smtpauth.ncl.ac.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1a7rW9-00089P-6g; Sat, 12 Dec 2015 21:15:49 +0000 In-Reply-To: <83r3ir5vrb.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 12 Dec 2015 21:09:44 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 128.240.234.22 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:196175 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> I'm guessing the motivation for all of these was the same -- faster >> loading of loaddefs.el, and lazy loading of other parts of subsidiary >> files. If this is the motivation I wonder whether it holds as true in >> 2015 as it did in 2007. > > No, the motivation was to replace the hand-written autoloads that were > there before. See this message, where Stefan posted a short > explanation: > > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2007-07/msg00263.html > > (Originally, these autoloads recorded the time of the update, which > was a hassle discussed in that thread; that was replaced with a > checksum to avoid changing the file too often when the autoloads > didn't really change.) Sure, I can see that, but I am wondering why the hand-written autoloads were just not replaced with generated autoloads in loaddefs.el? That is the simplest solution. Simple is good (so long as it's not simplistic). Or, as an alternative, implied by this post: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2007-07/msg00320.html > So I think this change in its current incarnation is for the worse. > Maybe if the autoloads were written into files that are not in CVS I'd > be happier. Which was your comment at the time. In this scenario, the reftex-* files would generate autoloads to reftex-loaddefs.el which reftex.el would require. This preserves the current behaviour, but avoids files which are both source and generated. One response to this was: > cvs already contains one generated file (configure script) and > possibly others. But configure isn't under versioning any more. And Stefan's MD5 patch was the other. It's certainly true that Stefan's solution massively reduces the problem, but it doesn't fix it, since a *build* can still produce changes in versioned files. Phil