From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: hw Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Some developement questions Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 20:18:33 +0200 Organization: my virtual residence Message-ID: <87y3c91aiu.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <87sh36inql.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <20180825103413.gbm5stsl67j6weow@Ergus> <87k1od7vzf.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83wosd5h3x.fsf@gnu.org> <871sakzssu.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83bm9n6f7d.fsf@gnu.org> <87tvneql3i.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83o9dl2oob.fsf@gnu.org> <87y3coopyf.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <8736uvmn44.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <87y3chqre4.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <87va7j65s6.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <87worxu66s.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <87worxm21j.fsf@toy.adminart.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1536613730 29573 195.159.176.226 (10 Sep 2018 21:08:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 21:08:50 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Filipp Gunbin Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 10 23:08:45 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fzTQL-0007bZ-Fl for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 23:08:45 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54021 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzTSR-0004Jo-JU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 17:10:55 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39564) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzTNy-0007uZ-IZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 17:06:19 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzTCE-0001Py-26 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 16:54:10 -0400 Original-Received: from mo6-p00-ob.smtp.rzone.de ([2a01:238:20a:202:5300::8]:15176) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzTCD-0001PJ-GV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 16:54:09 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1536612847; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=adminart.net; h=References:Message-ID:Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=98FxUYmtZQ/Q+0wqT4t8zZiUc1hWHisgMoc67toupPE=; b=lNV30yqQJFNm3J3x+5QgYY6V5zH2l0DhJq+7r0xsFYPD/ymwFCj8pgGWencEOYVErt ystYYghfwIv4LGyJVFVvwqWpHpcyxDdYVXLEYqyDVSTN5jRy6PWnzwAXg3v/HPV0/djj 7qlkotseqr3zrzHyWKBj1i48gmJ0pFBCt/pHV61rm00SZzdI3Zo0n4U8HkmqaLMN2XOd 8rklmpGGl+BsF5vQ2Q5/4R1UhrmHVc/89e1Qtajubiq82ZIPZWYtBHqO04Fo4mWIvc79 jau5t1ckZoAQODxfZEqyDPvomHoaqS4JyXzvsuwJ/zWG6LdYz0KOkEzsvlFEnin3KiA3 TRkA== X-RZG-AUTH: ":O2kGeEG7b/pS1FS4THaxjVF9w0vVgfQ9xGcjwO5WMRo5c+h5ceMqQWZ3yrBp+AVdIIwXjneEe9k=" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Original-Received: from himinbjorg.adminart.net by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.0 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id e03b99u8AKs3JsU (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Mon, 10 Sep 2018 22:54:03 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from toy.adminart.net ([192.168.3.55]) by himinbjorg.adminart.net with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1fzTC6-0001Bx-Lc; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 22:54:02 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Filipp Gunbin's message of "Mon, 10 Sep 2018 15:29:33 +0300") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2a01:238:20a:202:5300::8 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229656 Archived-At: Filipp Gunbin writes: > On 07/09/2018 23:27 +0200, hw wrote: > >> Filipp Gunbin writes: >> >>> On 07/09/2018 09:18 +0200, hw wrote: >>> >>>> Filipp Gunbin writes: >>>> >>>> I've never used a Russian one. That might make a nice collectors item >>>> :) >>> >>> Believe me, there's really nothing special about it. We usually switch >>> between English and Cyrillic layout. All Cyrillic letters are put on >>> the keyboard directly, with no AltGr or anything like that. If you >>> enable "russian-computer" input method in Emacs, you'll get the same as >>> we have on Russian keyboards. >> >> Well, I don't know how to read these letters while you see them all >> around all the time, so it's not special for you. > > You may well not be able to read the letters, but the layout is > structured like the US layout - lowercase and uppercase letters, digits > and some punctuation. In that sense it is "simpler" than levels of > alterations in German layout (at least to me :-) That gives you the advantage of having such a layout :) >>>>> You should have 2 Ctrl's and 2 Alt's (one of which could be AltGr) >>>>> on a German keyboard, so you should be in same situations as other >>>>> users. >>>> >>>> AltGr is not an Alt key. There is only *one* Alt key on German >>>> keyboards, and it's on the left side. >>> [...] > Have you tried Emacs input methods I wrote about? My impression is that > for any non-US script it should be convenient to use input methods. It > might be the case that I'm wrong and people in Germany don't switch > between layouts, and do everything in default German layout. But, say, > for Russian that is simply not possible, because the whole keyboard is > taken by Cyrillic alphabet. > > Of course we have OS-level switch, but I don't use that in Emacs because > other keys break (but they remain functional with input method turned > on). I use OS-level layout switch only in other apps. I need to read about input methods first. All the keys and characters are there plus a few, so we don't switch between layouts. Some of the characters are more difficult to reach than on the US layout. It might be helpful to switch layouts for programming. That would involve to create two xmodmaps for each keyboard and finding a way to switch. Since the keys are physically not the same on all boards, that can get confusing.