From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Making Emacs more friendly to newcomers Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 16:16:45 +0800 Message-ID: <87y2qrdh5e.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <863691n4xl.wl-me@enzu.ru> <87imhw431x.fsf@yahoo.com> <87mu78huhx.fsf_-_@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="16621"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: ndame , Richard Stallman , Ahmed Khanzada , "joseph.h.garvin@gmail.com" , "stefan@marxist.se" , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" , "eliz@gnu.org" , "drew.adams@oracle.com" To: =?utf-8?B?7KGw7ISx67mI?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 19 10:17:52 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jQ59E-0004Et-HV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 10:17:52 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39092 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQ59D-0000HV-Kf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 04:17:51 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52422) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQ58O-0007nE-LH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 04:17:00 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQ58N-0001QF-Sm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 04:17:00 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic305-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.185.146]:42499) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQ58N-0001OX-D9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 04:16:59 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1587284214; bh=sMzKmBr4T0TOD6UtLgy+WoCEQlMvCcogdICrPs5IKQg=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=UGzfGkbmGH+gLRYZnTjHjDNZppjt7czL8SfBc0/AulEnPPMv8JZJJ8FKF8YlOHXDeLN++dnvO//fbywA2r8rm5jgY9C7PNyp7z9QNkKcxTRHaLA/TiSml/6ivWRYF6gtSGTiwrQP1Vuf4Nei3lJW07NVhV4XzvCtgM6TscdUWbKayFAaMOUIRyOj7B/kvd4b3/V2cf4jO1fx8nk2jDvW7as744AecTeF9ET0zAStD8k7WpofrYX70lCQOPlqFH9jUnFcWCa9elD6JQX9ppbB4pJ855LNKnKXGv0lAFQBtbdt0scqrVTeejFR9jLM/i6Fl96JwUyNDLM1l0NrlY0s+A== X-YMail-OSG: rxUd9qAVM1mNxs4J5p_E7lsXSGVCg42JauIh_lMgG9val2ER5koeuGmYF6s8qRI W5g2sJumOe.et0gOmdmp602BJXQtXX0YVrUw5u3u7vobRwfhWJTmpOlSR16IVujA18hfbh_OxNlJ giJ.b5i.12JMibeL8h6Yzw12JKEY1E_tiqSc.JKDpKnmFUexj8fjAC5v2nb0u4K2MC7wQMsRRDHP kWejJnJDo52x28zwndJ6Fsfq9Dk7w4evAoVNjGYwOFLVOuUTN0pQpdEfEAD1fJEkaoLjPbYWyK7N fUhGM2YmcX5VPnWG87kOnVA8LTfF78WryAy35y0P1d7_ZnyK9ZZzPXpATtaPIv3biU7so_lMeHB_ F1uzN8xMJ0v2iuGsltuUoPhCfBUru0I2MSDaQvBSKWoPaJ83.YWBUxQ8lycEdzU.98qL5g5KbCae ZlkSW2gGEIgHYisFZODdZS5N_nVcEUXW1d3gXGAxj555H.AOHlRhwNJkHhuMnMLgQf1VT0DTD3vx 6trxfmlc7AqZflRO2Fd7t2aSgfBogQr9Sa5qO8QjyenLl4JIWUVvsUtrPcXDylXhZPXC.LQByqyY NnKyGd2HJ01K3kTIg7hiJ7.HfouqymGTSR7wMYXLydoR6jpkkDncQ6ex5ratmiXTh3NwVp87Zonw 8e5CVZLBWM_re1KcqEeGNrkjng5bp0DFJtKWhJVV61ynwpx8n3WoNTdQ0XouwtQJ3nYJJwRdLRI8 AqzDNoQ32nI2GHASROJFtOxfDmUJetv36zqaYlLgM2f18tg.CChfy8cLC3OVGz.wD0WbnVM7.8C2 RBl5owZNc_qX9FTzmUY98HT9Xn2ZGrwj8.7CqXi_1J Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic305.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 08:16:54 +0000 Original-Received: by smtp427.mail.sg3.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 8153b30f1a09596bae18e4c6cc9b7785; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 08:16:50 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: (=?utf-8?B?IuyhsOyEseu5iCIncw==?= message of "Sun, 19 Apr 2020 17:05:30 +0900") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.15739 hermes Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/11.0.6) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.185.146; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic305-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Linux 3.1-3.10 X-Received-From: 66.163.185.146 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247300 Archived-At: =EC=A1=B0=EC=84=B1=EB=B9=88 writes: > I personally find that the stance of trying to not breaking anything is > one of the big reasons that Emacs has a nonusable-without-configuration U= X. > Major version numbers are there for a reason=E2=80=A6 and we can expect f= or annoyed > people to set some variables to get old behavior. Major version numbers are there to announce new features. With massive changes (such as the ones that are being proposed here), you can't just "flip a variable to get the old behaviour". Especially people with 20 years of muscle memory and 200,000+ line configs. Again: what's wrong with the "if you're new to Emacs, click here" button?