From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Phillip Lord Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: dash.el [was: Re: Imports / inclusion of s.el into Emacs] Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 18:30:18 +0100 Message-ID: <87y2pxcb85.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <35DBF02E-44D7-41E5-A217-7D6EC84ED221@icloud.com> <83d07984ux.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="48560"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.91 (gnu/linux) Cc: rms@gnu.org, joostkremers@fastmail.fm, Emacs-devel@gnu.org, ams@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , pcr910303@icloud.com To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue May 12 19:31:15 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jYYkL-000CTi-Te for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 12 May 2020 19:31:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59148 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYYkK-0005XQ-Up for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 12 May 2020 13:31:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58682) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYYjb-0004gJ-I5 for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 May 2020 13:30:27 -0400 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([78.129.138.110]:43272) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYYjY-0003Iz-90; Tue, 12 May 2020 13:30:27 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=LyBILwqY3wqcIscjfBQpIwo9ZP/zQV8hrRobs9CTHKo=; b=GaeYLJYVuEmmSwQu7OYeTPqQO zHwy3RyqIvpUITc82SszpgK/UdR6p0LtqZTF+NyeD+tysU55jnUSuXdSuXt1OzIHcs9+duiEvDQBI NN+xeEmUAMXMmXpW6mSbcpvyN4FBuykW6gxfa7Gwx77r53PkPLu6Lcu/ZYXnH6MUry+Bl/qYxkkWa nae+PvFIzC5VYFfpn3xqo8nCQ+bazWoXmRKw68ILubV4/majEiO7h2U3NaMakkSObW4AbzXykPxCF 3efz8NnNNwT2roZDhomVtPD5Px8RNvl8fOiWBlqpyiEQxUHla6PNu+E86WPM6DL4uE8Nruz9UxzLW 4J6LzApYA==; Original-Received: from cpc142652-benw12-2-0-cust953.16-2.cable.virginm.net ([82.21.43.186]:48786 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1jYYjT-0004k7-6B; Tue, 12 May 2020 18:30:19 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83d07984ux.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 12 May 2020 20:01:26 +0300") X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Received-SPF: none client-ip=78.129.138.110; envelope-from=phillip.lord@russet.org.uk; helo=cloud103.planethippo.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/12 13:21:38 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250002 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Stefan Monnier >> Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 23:55:10 -0400 >> Cc: joostkremers@fastmail.fm, ams@gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk, >> pcr910303@icloud.com, Emacs-devel@gnu.org >> >> > I see the distinction, but either way it would cause the same problem. >> > The problem is a second, incoherent set of string functions. >> >> But it's a problem we can't solve, because the library is out there are >> people use it. Furthermore it's only hypothetical. > > It won't stay hypothetical if we allow incoherent packages into ELPA > and start accepting their use in other packages and eventually in > core. People will ask us to use them more, people will ask us to > document them, people will ask us to fix bugs in them, and eventually > to use them in our own code. In a word, people will rightfully expect > us to take full responsibility on every such package. The costs will > come, I have no doubt about it. Well, dash, f, and s are already been maintained, already being used, already being fixed, documented (rather well, actually), and tested. Perhaps, if the people doing this work saw that their work was gratefully accepted, and allowed to continue doing it with the minimum of fuss and not too much design by committee, then they would continue doing it. >> I'll just recommend people add MELPA to their `package-archives` and >> move on. > > Please don't. Please understand why. Phil