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[106.69.96.152]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c24sm5907441pfd.145.2021.09.05.20.02.38 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 05 Sep 2021 20:02:40 -0700 (PDT) In-reply-to: <871r62ec1h.fsf@yahoo.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::529; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pg1-x529.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:274049 Archived-At: Po Lu writes: > Dmitry Gutov writes: > >> BTW, Po Lu, what do you think of the latter option? If you have a >> company-wide "Emacs Users" channel, on IRC/Slack or whatever, that >> shouldn't take too much effort. > > Well it would certainly be possible, but still an annoyance, compared to > leaving it as-is. Changing defaults is going to be annoying for some, just as leaving them as is will continue to be annoying for others. In this case, it would appear the two groups are about evenly distributed, so either way, some proportion of users will be annoyed and using it as a reason to change or not change adds little. The question is really what would be the expected behaviour for new users? I don't know how to determine the right answer to that question or even if there is a right answer. The only thing which seems important really is how easily the new user can discover the right setting to get the behaviour they want and how easily that behaviour can be configured. From memory, that was not as straight-forward for a new user as it could be (but then again, for me, that was nearly 30 years ago and things have changed, so perhaps it is now easier than it once was. I clearly recall it taking some effort to get the behaviour I wanted when first starting with emacs wrt tabs v spaces). I also don't think all defaults are equal and should not be treated as such. Some defaults feel somewhat arbitrary - indent-tab-mode feels like one of these. However, other defaults are more critical as they can impact on more subtle or advanced behaviour and selecting the right default may impact on how easily users discover the benefits of that advanced behaviour.