From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Org mode and Emacs (was: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2022 11:42:12 +1000 Message-ID: <87y1y1uycc.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87ee038ipt.fsf@gmx.de> <87o7z61v59.fsf@gmail.com> <87bkv527p5.fsf@gmail.com> <835yld93w7.fsf@gnu.org> <877d5t0yrn.fsf@gmail.com> <87r140yuof.fsf@gmail.com> <875yl9e7zm.fsf@gmail.com> <83czfh12kp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmjhghu2.fsf@localhost> <835yl910gp.fsf@gnu.org> <87wndndbhq.fsf@gmail.com> <874k0qbrhe.fsf@localhost> <877d5lwhbg.fsf@gmail.com> <87k09l4cs1.fsf@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="10393"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.7.27; emacs 28.1.50 Cc: rms@gnu.org, eliz@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ihor Radchenko Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Jun 13 03:50:58 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o0ZEI-0002Wq-Fl for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 13 Jun 2022 03:50:58 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37790 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0ZEH-0005IC-AU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 12 Jun 2022 21:50:57 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35324) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0ZCe-0003q0-DN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Jun 2022 21:49:16 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pj1-x102d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::102d]:51784) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0ZCc-0004nm-ST; Sun, 12 Jun 2022 21:49:16 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pj1-x102d.google.com with SMTP id cx11so4349501pjb.1; Sun, 12 Jun 2022 18:49:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version; bh=9418DYppXY4fsbubzprmYLmyV5l2Kp9NwG1S8fnY1Dc=; b=Qs4tEn4OFDvDky2f2ITkGtBk7Xb0FYMj6JmZ3G2O0AeMC2hW7kShm80SZ7LZFFuefM cPudUY6b7U+fLG8+H3TMSIKOZAx8/60xuji3T+9OS2h1rnUmcpoGVIwzkJQ/ITbsDfdk M+j7vBsv3QVkzAbnEwUwIeVhdsSI0LtivjLcfbC5ppXhf5lPd7YZv2ppfxbmqnkGXad0 LrjliRjMAdulRL2B7Wj2DoxjyHrcnndtoiPTERLbc6jrW3IpuwJ+iXN7YmYbNwdTe5fm 1iKK3mNfQaqHTygCYJPAp+SbB+tjeSypKX8zdbAQy4fx7F3sk29D4h2qg6zV4zRK/yMA pypg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:date :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version; bh=9418DYppXY4fsbubzprmYLmyV5l2Kp9NwG1S8fnY1Dc=; b=XO/oNw16YkLg7jNoZGvtzcRgKFff0eW1HzOKGCN6MTZdTwowWTEIQPfSvq6Xhv7RID u5fAMOb4D1c4ApFt1vKl8M+MIOTZuwqt6Tn4nDiBir8gtF83KhlPotnuBHoZgeFHXH3H GpiEAA/mcO5mZnfR59F/BO8mcKVQ34lj9RxOsO/xwe473MAQgOt5BTQYTRsZANibfCCs x236rXE6bD7bhBCd3g98IG665p2VhIpVETUe4DpZbTf5GjcCVB92onGF4xpVqCC44SlK ln6qJ58Z/xi8J/wsN+39Ygld9lJV4t/Yaw3LiPAXvf/Ttfl1Tj6XntcGTGVypqQ10QV3 0KhQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533+CHZTP93HHht16sjeQHuuEujzn3LEltqsgk8sgstw21ydPob/ CRgg0TzycdBlz30iMiUPDhLdMPL5LMg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzyfag6200Ij0vr8fFN72TxqKFHVclstlFYdmOijFrnp5dS7RjsdMuMpJ5XVIAaA+bcOj/bmQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:4c8d:b0:1ea:8c6a:6aa with SMTP id my13-20020a17090b4c8d00b001ea8c6a06aamr12562242pjb.56.1655084951970; Sun, 12 Jun 2022 18:49:11 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from dingbat (2001-44b8-31f2-bb00-8622-f08c-6751-b8f0.static.ipv6.internode.on.net. [2001:44b8:31f2:bb00:8622:f08c:6751:b8f0]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g3-20020a62f943000000b0050dc7628168sm3885750pfm.66.2022.06.12.18.49.09 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 12 Jun 2022 18:49:11 -0700 (PDT) In-reply-to: <87k09l4cs1.fsf@localhost> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::102d; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-x102d.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:291122 Archived-At: Ihor Radchenko writes: > Tim Cross writes: > >> There are many ways org mode can be improved. Current work to clarify >> and refine the syntax, provide a solid and efficient parser, improved >> font-locking and formatting and more consistent and rich API for both >> extensions and new export backends are far more critical than adding >> additional markup/markdown syntax to enable org mode to replace texinfo. >> IMO such changes are not only misguided, they have the real potential to >> adversely impact org by making things more complicated and harder to >> maintain, destroying the advantage of a very small and easy to use >> markup and moving the focus towards becoming an authoring tool rather >> than a personal data organisation aid. > > Tim, I afraid that we a slipping to overgeneralisation again. > We may or may not need to make changes to Org syntax for the purpose of > writing documentation using Org. > > Can someone please prepare a small example texi file containing examples > of various texi features that are commonly needed and possibly also > demonstrating some concrete instances of problems that exist in texinfo? > > If we have such an example and know the expected outputs, someone can > then create an equivalent Org file. Then, the discussion will hopefuly > become more constructive. > Well, I think Richard was pretty clear when he asked for the additional semantic tags listed in the Indicating Definitions, Commands & etc section of the texinfo manual (6.1 in my copy). Looking at just that section and it is clear current org markup syntax can handle less than half. Some of those not handled are the types of semantic elements you would tend to encounter in software manuals and that is just one section. However, I think I've made my position clear and have little more to add, so I will bow out of any further discussion.