From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Yoni Rabkin Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs packages, GitHub and software freedom Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2022 09:58:19 -0400 Message-ID: <87y1x62vic.fsf@rabkins.net> References: <875yka4b91.fsf@disroot.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="10627"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1.90 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Akib Azmain Turja Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 06 15:59:08 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o95YY-0002Zh-Tw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 15:59:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35190 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o95YX-00076o-Kf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 09:59:05 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34890) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o95Xu-0006Qo-In for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 09:58:26 -0400 Original-Received: from smtprelay0017.hostedemail.com ([216.40.44.17]:39082 helo=relay5.hostedemail.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o95Xs-0008ML-Tv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 09:58:26 -0400 Original-Received: from omf01.hostedemail.com (a10.router.float.18 [10.200.18.1]) by unirelay02.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 390903346B; Wed, 6 Jul 2022 13:58:23 +0000 (UTC) Original-Received: from [HIDDEN] (Authenticated sender: yoni@rabkins.net) by omf01.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 913F36000C; Wed, 6 Jul 2022 13:58:20 +0000 (UTC) X-Ethics: Use GNU In-Reply-To: <875yka4b91.fsf@disroot.org> (Akib Azmain Turja's message of "Wed, 06 Jul 2022 19:32:58 +0600") X-Stat-Signature: snyqqtjkeyc6xs47zhhy8dnurpggk51m X-Rspamd-Server: rspamout08 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 913F36000C X-Session-Marker: 796F6E69407261626B696E732E6E6574 X-Session-ID: U2FsdGVkX1+YxSaH88ucB7O+DMdWBNCpMLFMQfTfvEA= X-HE-Tag: 1657115900-439533 Received-SPF: none client-ip=216.40.44.17; envelope-from=yoni@rabkins.net; helo=relay5.hostedemail.com X-Spam_score_int: -8 X-Spam_score: -0.9 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FORGED_SPF_HELO=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:291902 Archived-At: Akib Azmain Turja writes: > Recently, FSF has sent the following in the Free Software Supporter > list:[1] > >> ### Give up GitHub: The time has come! >> >> *From June 30 by Software Freedom Conservancy* >> >> [Following GitHub's announcement](https://u.fsf.org/3me) of Copilot as >> a for-profit product, Software Freedom Conservancy calls on all free >> software developers to leave and "Give up GitHub!" The campaign page >> lists major reasons to give up on GitHub. Conservancy says, >> "developers have been, for too long, the proverbial frog in slowly >> boiling water. GitHub's behavior has gotten progressively worse, and >> we've excused, ignored, or otherwise acquiesced to cognitive >> dissonance." Read about the initiative, join the public mailing list, >> and learn how you can support the campaign yourself. >> >> * > > And GitHub is already listed as being a F grade software forge in "GNU > Ethical Repository Criteria Evaluations" for atleast more than a > year.[2] "GNU Ethical Repository Criteria" says that it's > unacceptable.[3] > > But it is a matter of regret that many (about 133 out of 356 on my > downloaded archive-contents) GNU Emacs packages on GNU ELPA (let alone > NonGNU ELPA and MELPA) use GitHub. What steps should we take about > them? (Kicking them out of ELPA is indeed not an option.) Kicking them out would be unkind. But asking that new projects going forward use a different backend seems reasonable. That ideally should be accompanied with a few recommendations. Emms has been always been hosted on Savannah (for many years now), and it works well for us. Emms is a mid-sized Emacs package with relatively light development work. Savannah has been a stable and reliable home over many years. Personally, I don't prefer to interface life or work through a browser, so the features, or lack thereof, of the Savannah Website never bothered me. For Emms we use the mailing lists Savannah provides, Savannah's git repo, and I try to keep an eye on irc for people commenting about problems and improvements. As an Emacs package, yes, we have been asked by many people over the years why we don't just use github, and I'm sure that Emms is indeed mirrored there and therefore has been, without any of the copyright holder's consent, been added to microsoft's mass code theft project. -- "Cut your own wood and it will warm you twice"