From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Yoni Rabkin Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs packages, GitHub and software freedom Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2022 18:31:25 -0400 Message-ID: <87y1x527r6.fsf@rabkins.net> References: <875yka4b91.fsf@disroot.org> <87y1x62vic.fsf@rabkins.net> <87zghm2rlh.fsf@disroot.org> <87czeikkzw.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="29234"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1.90 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Tim Cross Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 07 00:34:26 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o9DbF-0007N1-Pn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2022 00:34:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44192 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o9DbE-00023f-65 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 18:34:24 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39752) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o9DYQ-0001Ac-SA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 18:31:31 -0400 Original-Received: from smtprelay0013.hostedemail.com ([216.40.44.13]:7785 helo=relay3.hostedemail.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o9DYP-0004wY-8e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 18:31:30 -0400 Original-Received: from omf07.hostedemail.com (a10.router.float.18 [10.200.18.1]) by unirelay07.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31EFA2064A; Wed, 6 Jul 2022 22:31:28 +0000 (UTC) Original-Received: from [HIDDEN] (Authenticated sender: yoni@rabkins.net) by omf07.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 77DF92002E; Wed, 6 Jul 2022 22:31:26 +0000 (UTC) X-Ethics: Use GNU In-Reply-To: <87czeikkzw.fsf@gmail.com> (Tim Cross's message of "Thu, 07 Jul 2022 06:52:53 +1000") X-Rspamd-Server: rspamout04 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 77DF92002E X-Stat-Signature: 59qk8oftkipeyy7jkskienxafnjpuym5 X-Session-Marker: 796F6E69407261626B696E732E6E6574 X-Session-ID: U2FsdGVkX18F6NmDhPglL6asNkk4l58hyQs2/Qzs9no= X-HE-Tag: 1657146686-88015 Received-SPF: none client-ip=216.40.44.13; envelope-from=yoni@rabkins.net; helo=relay3.hostedemail.com X-Spam_score_int: -8 X-Spam_score: -0.9 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FORGED_SPF_HELO=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:291918 Archived-At: Tim Cross writes: > Akib Azmain Turja writes: > >> >> Savannah is obviously a good host, but it's not newbie friendly IMHO. >> FSF has a plan for a new forge. Let's wait and see what they give us. >> > > They do? Any link to information on that? > > Two points to note which I think are relevant > > 1. This was all brought up quite some time ago and RMS basically came > down saying that on balance, we have to accept people will host packages > on github and that being hosted there was not to be an impediment to > being included in ELPA or nonGNU ELPA. This might seem contradictory > given FSF statements about github, but the world is full of > contradiction. The FSF even has a link to Paypal on their donations > page despite their position on not encouraging the use of non-free JS. > > 2. Until there is a solution which does provide high level functionality > similar to that provided by github, you just yelling at the wind. If you > really want people to stop using github for Emacs packages, you need to > either look at developing higher level functionality which sits on top > of sevannah or help add functionality to other forges, like gitlab or > sourceHut so that these other forges become as appealing to these > developers. > > 3. If you try to control where packages are hosted/developed by > restricting access to ELPA/nonGNU ELPA, all you will do is encourage > repositories like MELPA, which provide no assurance regarding package > licenses. At least ELPA/nonGNU ELPA are all libre. licensed. My understanding of their request, is that Eli asks that this discussion continue on the emacs-tangents mailing list. -- "Cut your own wood and it will warm you twice"