From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Payas Relekar Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Org mode and Emacs Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 08:22:03 +0530 Message-ID: <87y1u8b1gj.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="15215"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.8.10; emacs 29.0.50 To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 25 06:50:25 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ocJaz-0003ld-Av for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2022 06:50:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34688 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ocJax-0001Ve-NH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 25 Sep 2022 00:50:23 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46788) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ocHv3-0000sb-9M for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2022 23:03:01 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pg1-x536.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::536]:40508) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ocHv1-0004d5-F4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Sep 2022 23:03:01 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pg1-x536.google.com with SMTP id s26so3673555pgv.7 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2022 20:02:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:message-id:date:subject:to:from:user-agent:from:to:cc :subject:date; bh=aBzy5S0//aeO8QAzh2tOq+Kl3taWb/GIqX9k4BA3A+0=; b=jGZy1ePdQ5PxMMg9+WuL5jYL0IrhIh3zjFObByFRDbCBM0MgvCcLW4rMlN7yp+iPKP NJFf1R0kprlL0qvYnkyZSRySmQV8oEz8F8TUtN6L+gwh8xwPR3O/RKNEtImCRRx3WZRK ElbI9Lu1S695/Ri/778irWlr1lD5Tvr4ECEK7iCKCkWwXx/Ej3Ax9R5jkhMZ4ByR5PTN DBdkJk4lNLH4Z4jtYjE34Xrh6t4K90XCtpkq7O9EqEew12phJIiaoG0mUa/zEMdsQdtO v0qDoD4L9c4WVKozDWNofmFNazZ7zzWsWGXGuEgnL/wloITL+4/LeIUSRa7IPdlI3Gqq eNEA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=mime-version:message-id:date:subject:to:from:user-agent :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=aBzy5S0//aeO8QAzh2tOq+Kl3taWb/GIqX9k4BA3A+0=; b=BR3bEzKP8ieKOQflO+LoMnAbwQ5ETTTKj5NKuz/j63rO/UFa5ShRch5ZuOCN4NzeES W5s+gVc+rjpZezKH2+W3RqVkBUPY8DUC1wQbttH3WOFojijvS8ExsfF7HwzOPgemLr/R wJHY1E1ZYKghnhRv3oBId5FsWL7634jmbXwsJ1REUuQxXRDxxW0c3ZxVM9VL5Wg84PS6 Pc9Nv7StD6IsKy5mTzVlxx3SDxc/+Va7IiT3n/fhgSIZOSJ1oxg1xlYlKn7ikr1rGxbn bYuzXgWfcLioBbEdsaKN8TIxiSzlGDdAIndNraKY1eA5EjbsfAR/WAhApF89TaLZ2Ypg 7izA== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf1c+ynCEkeRMwXWWkPj/nDkll6+rmAzTX7mB/r7F2FEn6FHsBAX gCGwEUNStaLYpYb3/pm9RvQd2vmPWxM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM7anLVqRdDjZdVRwmm/+6UpEf1nnh+BSOJc9rhdRGlsVrZ5qpHTVn0SQBClplZnY4NRm9quCg== X-Received: by 2002:aa7:88c7:0:b0:542:3229:8d11 with SMTP id k7-20020aa788c7000000b0054232298d11mr16838105pff.41.1664074977333; Sat, 24 Sep 2022 20:02:57 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost ([150.107.26.18]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i3-20020a170902c94300b00176acd80f69sm8512213pla.102.2022.09.24.20.02.56 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 24 Sep 2022 20:02:56 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::536; envelope-from=relekarpayas@gmail.com; helo=mail-pg1-x536.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 00:46:34 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:296191 Archived-At: Hi Bastien, Bastien writes: > Here is the email I sent when I accepted to switch to using .org as > the native format for Org documentation: > > https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/87371gfas7.fsf@bzg.fr/ > > As you can read, I wanted to make the switch as an experiment to see > if we were really solving a problem here. > > I believe we didn't get more contributions to the manual by switching > to .org, so I'd be in favor of switching back to using .texi as the > native format for Org's documentation. (Not for 9.6, obviously, more > probably for 10.0 -- I'll discuss this with other Org maintainers.) >From your mail, below were the motivators for change: - Let's stabilize editing standards around the org.org file. - Let's test org capabilities against a giant .org file. - Let's make `C-x 4 a' do something useful in an .org section. - Let's write more non-emacs parsers and exporters. - Let's see if we have more contributions to the manual and if we really solved a problem here. While you're best to judge the number of contributions, #1 and #2, or the dogfooding opportunities provided by the switch are immense. One doesn't occasionally run into org documents the size of org.org. It has already resulted in gc enhancements as it was slowing down Emacs build and was optimized. I'll say that alone is a benefit worth keeping. There is also more progress being made on non-emacs parsers[0][1], and perhaps we can reach out if they find org.org useful. Generally speaking, these projects are even smaller (number of contributors-wise) than org-mode, but a shared burden is always nicer. [0]: https://github.com/nvim-orgmode/orgmode [1]: https://github.com/200ok-ch/org-parser/blob/master/resources/org.ebnf > The other topics in this thread (make Org's Texinfo exporter provide > good .texi manuals, make Org more modular, etc.) are interesting, but > they are really separate questions IMHO. Thanks, Payas --