From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Renaming eglot -- or at least add an alias? Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 11:32:54 +0100 Message-ID: <87y1u1xicp.fsf@gmail.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="475"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 30 12:35:31 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oeDMg-000AV8-QL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 30 Sep 2022 12:35:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60078 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oeDMf-0001az-Ey for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 30 Sep 2022 06:35:29 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41092) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oeDJA-0007Xs-Bf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 30 Sep 2022 06:31:52 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x436.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::436]:39597) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oeDJ8-000830-HA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 30 Sep 2022 06:31:52 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x436.google.com with SMTP id f11so3497274wrm.6 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2022 03:31:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=wLVVNbaz+Ajq9HNUrF7zJixbBH3T2Vuz30HNl4DOElo=; b=K2s7N1OiFQY6fhfosjImXLClnPEzWUMi8ns8mRZ26LWXaWWcfBTQ9fqrE8/UZWqG6M 6HyE/P9VW54ybNYDVkkuApY1glsvBT14xgUmb4kHiTrYIMfd1zyLNOMrodkbo20AxGzT po6TlHHSLb5UghpU9zoIpWdU+EsKh/TN4tZvMDEWGT7LOQggRyTMWdHF7LTmyHdd6Zqd 9pENK6ssLyCCbm+aSvZEVG7Fi2d09Y1dMZM9JdAZxC8Mf5JjZg5iy++bwvzgi3KM8EJ2 DIIGIZct79dElk+UYfMZ67Bw6XOvN2d/IKyOYbKhkvRer8wszQvWIV6woRZSZ6b0S+kM 8BUw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date; bh=wLVVNbaz+Ajq9HNUrF7zJixbBH3T2Vuz30HNl4DOElo=; b=RrtS8rig/bmzaj77aYs4spRDgGI2xhmu2AlYA3Vt48EpvQdcnEnD++qyqxV+8tJ3Ns 8F27Vc0N9KMskSS6SlECfdT9TXHs+grZ0x4+jPlNIZE/R6hkkX/Q7UP9B6I+Hi4PbvW9 CE3JM+U60fBoC4Ut5YwSCxuzRUl3ISA5EXGmVMDIJU7d8o6FC2J5wQH5uxF1EZR7lWju TLkGhO3zRTpihQlTsg7Li3gIMzIdq2QX+MaY4I3FD14tIsmUK3ONuWHw5mUztBiz3I50 n6lXbWzEeCofxWN6fUHITIX97evfNbINC4IVtjbLcGbyjr0Dd3eopMSzh6PCNC/IDJ7d NFeg== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf3Hbb2BFu4ITFUIO+Cv7rHOvukvvydIUHPAUVrd3Qbdg5SQf32I u0KMINtD1lLNA2h9Km2YGkEIfWfDKVs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM4FiQTL46AJS4AfJUzQTlSAVAnHvMhHanQy+u+s63lhgImgGVuklMrzDfohO9EaTpEjTh1ZPA== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:5750:0:b0:22d:58d5:338 with SMTP id q16-20020a5d5750000000b0022d58d50338mr1517959wrw.693.1664533906337; Fri, 30 Sep 2022 03:31:46 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from krug ([87.196.73.174]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j13-20020a5d452d000000b00228a6ce17b4sm1737355wra.37.2022.09.30.03.31.45 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 30 Sep 2022 03:31:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Fri, 30 Sep 2022 01:04:46 -0700") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::436; envelope-from=joaotavora@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x436.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:296503 Archived-At: Stefan Kangas writes: > Hi all, Jo=C3=A3o, > > I therefore propose > renaming it to elsp-mode and using the elsp-* prefix for it. I'm not sure this is a great idea. It seems to directly violate two of the items I listed in the plan I sent some time ago (https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2022-09/msg01583.html) * The current GNU ELPA "eglot" package is of type :url. The plan is to simply transition it to :core in GNU ELPA This has obvious advantages, such as not needing to change a user configuration to continue receiving updates on the same package. * Another item on that list required that, for a transient period, the GitHub hosting can continue to mirror the upstream lisp/progmodes/eglot.el file and the GitHub eglot-tests.el can continue to work with no changes.. Also current users a git clone of the GitHub repo will continue to work unimpeded. I think adding one or two aliases wouldn't hurt this directly, but a "renaming" definitely would. But then what symbols would you add the alias to? `M-x eglot`? What about all the other externals ones? Variables, commands, API symbols? Even if the fallout from that were somehow acceptable, I think adding the three-letter sequence "lsp" into the the mix will just fuel even more confusion between the two Emacs LSP clients. I mean, even with the current unmistakable "eglot"/"lsp" names, I remember people asking why some snippet of lsp-mode.el config doesn't work with eglot.el. I don't think current popular packages such named TRAMP, ido, ElDoc, Flymake are that much better at describing accurately what they do in their short names. Or "Emacs", for that matter. I think naming has had little bearing on their adoption. It's debatable that "LSP" is even a good "descriptive" thing to put into the name of a package. For a total newbie to Emacs or to programming, what even is "LSP", what does it mean? It's, quite literally, a lower level implementation detail concerning an implementation protocol. If it weren't for the occasional need to shop around for "language servers" on your system package manager, the user shouldn't even know about it. If a more complete Emacs distribution, say a "Doom" or a "Bliss" Emacs would just bundle these server programs, then "LSP" would be totally meaningless. I'm not sure any of this would more would-be Emacs maintainers will start engaging with Eglot maintenance, setting up servers to help reproduce bugs and understand the architecture of the package. Those are the real things needed to propel Eglot adoption, in my sincere opinion. Jo=C3=A3o PS: As you may have guessed, despite being out of this particular loop, I'm not too hot on the current renaming symbol trend. I think for example, having renamed `current-line` to `array-current-line` bring us little in exchange for the confusion and byte-compilation noise it introduces. Namespacing problems should be solved with proper namespacing systems.