From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Concurrency via isolated process/thread Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2023 16:53:40 +0800 Message-ID: <87y1j4xtgr.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <871qhnr4ty.fsf@localhost> <87351zbi72.fsf@localhost> <83351yevde.fsf@gnu.org> <87cz12ad2w.fsf@localhost> <83a5w6cwdr.fsf@gnu.org> <87pm518m0g.fsf@localhost> <83o7kl9tyj.fsf@gnu.org> <874jmd89us.fsf@localhost> <878rb53dkj.fsf@localhost> <83edkxsclz.fsf@gnu.org> <87tttt1mzh.fsf@localhost> <83351ds9de.fsf@gnu.org> <87ila91j6n.fsf@localhost> <83y1j5qoyo.fsf@gnu.org> <87wmypi7s0.fsf@localhost> <87fs5czvs2.fsf@yahoo.com> <87mszk7glc.fsf@localhost> <877cqozc14.fsf@yahoo.com> <87bkg0s9p4.fsf@localhost> <87351cz993.fsf@yahoo.com> <87wmyoqt0j.fsf@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="22514"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ihor Radchenko Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 25 10:54:33 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qODoO-0005fa-N1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 25 Jul 2023 10:54:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qODnq-0004ff-Uw; Tue, 25 Jul 2023 04:53:58 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qODno-0004fW-OD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jul 2023 04:53:56 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic302-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.186.146]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qODnn-0006Zm-8a for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jul 2023 04:53:56 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1690275233; bh=Pq8NPPL+U6eGxo8GqjCBDaGyNtbSSdE8nPTGAmo7JsY=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=YCEinkuBJrVTTW8ODFgPUs94oYshW2kKHK+13g7rBiCfveiyz4kSKp++OorqyaPmnRRqDhYRspOwvDJOXtbMZV52mwfDnJAPxgRcQCJhyOq+lL4UjeKaS321gsZ4beYFn7pAOrPETkDhLsKRtsVrdpvt2LhScu6wd5H5pcFQm+gi91oAI0rUDdVGEXjVyLyaT7SetHDWK9MzDFBeK/TVjcqct6jUlEJmnviqJKt9NVV4Wx4R7XKSi1b1gG7DBtiEDCPuMtcQV6OfpoSp1MeoHPN3iD32qwUzVCi1AlOw6mdwVKgItvzZrxMLIKvsBAAka4t4neH66Uz5eY1Pk24ziw== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1690275233; bh=bwgmo2sahQ2R0+ZId4s8m8bJDLjjUMPHBr4pRvLGExB=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=ItspE55Dt7jAd3GMPsLlIJmiF9Z4TEwDqL+R/08RnGvHNdvYOZnPmL5ZonVUnH6bty8a90H0DMeJP6vyXROgAdjS1MW5QtrX4BmiMVBvDWEgHCGX/VfjjBNBdqBxFxpdJL99BxmW24XiQ0X+EOWupDhBU5rTX4HbKvFvWQGADMU5+H084KaKULDXeXXZVOlOtgggAualkeOx9Y2KHbL/QhSSyh8RRkeRm7EzXUsRSwqpZj1rZdiWaJToasG1OfAZsKBblyUV0pLriDQeh8+Oy6HaYoOLVLGHmk6+mv4sL8CvEjf6Jtpgt5fF8HKSH9tQXNCUaf7nXW4trBE1CEqRMg== X-YMail-OSG: 4T6O1s4VM1lLErA7_An_iyirP7ibMYStD3vMAS5bg_y8TaiIeke3YjYfi9uCwFK Zzc8tRlPiCTITnYEGQZF.lEVdSwfxoibP55ZYfh09riNvDNkeB1DYfv039Y8ixlZptx59mFsNUy_ nNDfDk0OaCyhwR8FmlgzEGtKmboBtT5OCkHkX3YGjMsPrUWcuhvDbiJUnIR3nHlsbigkQOv9J8kU 4HK9AoqJav4BSCUgjXajKFhVwaF3BHlzqhUhYJOFqwqFjAiweJI9mpYc7kA.qvDW_hEfkndH1ExP 4l8DAShjoOtXcmyboS_dmnQcngyP5opy0J9G4dVcL8ltDCysu6oey39um.8hpoti1hbjvKfm1gfH KIVRIMjyKIk4S9WNWWHwHJ0i2rghMYFKAii9KVYEjtml5b1mE2K_YJuedD8SFFmf.5v_2cAKwDJl SKlK1FzfOBmARvUp938y0dczJbwkkrn.WaSAMQ.MvROASWSRY_jjrSrV3_IuSCGW9gzQfrPwH_7Q sjRopGUrlYUO3hCqJHPmoiaeyjFKuMqsB8KD_NiC9yVaLfQFmNnqHebtuQEev4e0Ja4sIgaVfogK MJ0ib6ylLQHC1Pz9dlXIKyBKcWejW1K6A137xtjk2in2Eg0W7RoEEpbysX8wPy75YRmggGhvQnIz F0boAic18Xv1ETBTGKCkmiL9cbXrik15dx7fFcHB4ZWXUiNNiSxfHc73i9u7q6sttS4DbNeS3c0t I.2pOFGBwqgFPzir5d1BXEqJOls9AzCKSO9wUaj.Q4Hq5JIyn1_vC9mtyVqOdqc1wyp_cU95HKWQ 0YMyQlD8cUUaXoYp2WR5BiJTFCPa8gUt77Ein2.HdP X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: 74de77d4-f2b7-4ce4-bb89-e5189e2c0680 Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic302.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 25 Jul 2023 08:53:53 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--production-sg3-6b8fc8d58f-875mb (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 874de4e9d2a7b039a95255a46c853ac7; Tue, 25 Jul 2023 08:53:46 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <87wmyoqt0j.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Tue, 25 Jul 2023 08:45:16 +0000") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21647 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.186.146; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic302-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:308081 Archived-At: Ihor Radchenko writes: > My point is that it will be very difficult to support such systems in > future if we decide that we want to rely upon safety of concurrent read > and write. It's very unlikely that these systems will exist in the future and that Emacs will want to run on them. These assumptions are currently being made by Linux and the JVM, just to name a few multiprocessor programs that do so. If, by some miracle, these systems do appear, Emacs can either run on a single CPU, or we can revisit our decisions at that time. > I understood that figure and the associated section differently. > Do you have some kind of reference showing the performance of > READ_ONCE/WRITE_ONCE? The figure is titled ``Figure 5.1: Atomic Increment Scalability on x86''. The surrounding text and source code listings make the comparison taking place unambiguous. > If we need less interlocks, it will certainly make things easier, but I > do not want to run into hard-to-debug bugs caused by data races. And you won't, if you run your program on a machine Emacs currently supports.