From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ihor Radchenko Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Org mode and Emacs Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2023 16:12:57 +0000 Message-ID: <87y1hjqnzq.fsf@localhost> References: <83msyemjx8.fsf@gnu.org> <871qfpoij6.fsf@gnu.org> <87fs45ivyo.fsf@localhost> <87h6okga15.fsf@localhost> <87cyz61cbp.fsf@localhost> <87v8cuqtkr.fsf@localhost> <87sf7rsfpd.fsf@localhost> <8334zr32ih.fsf@gnu.org> <87edjbsc8k.fsf@localhost> <83r0nb1mb1.fsf@gnu.org> <871qfbsaju.fsf@localhost> <83pm2v1fyw.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="34378"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 06 18:12:57 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qdv9E-0008iq-QK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 06 Sep 2023 18:12:56 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qdv8r-0005Js-4y; Wed, 06 Sep 2023 12:12:33 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qdv8p-0005JA-If for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Sep 2023 12:12:31 -0400 Original-Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qdv8Z-0007HT-0x for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Sep 2023 12:12:31 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 91A50240101 for ; Wed, 6 Sep 2023 18:12:11 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1694016731; bh=v8VZVd16S+VUSkquY8aFClVsosrqln6Zt5g06S87Kbk=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:From; b=LfK5Demj9DOvKfRdVi0Ea+W6NJ+l3sJUnSbixDAKH1C1tSOQn5n7OvLPgu04N+vyx I6Z7IOnAzyGhPGqmLHLIu8p2dEYtcI5k7e+C+kLSGmc9XyJPPa2LeiDS/I2ml95hPP f3FLD9Lz6tR6wghOke/RJkyT1TO/syiugKVCTI7Xh3F4tdz/c7jiSqtRCj7r04e7Ey mUo74oY0qf5AZCmw/xVV6uyKe8CxxpNSJ0iBXXhtfhVkKEVgul5GIHIOJ+zfqSRTQL MUln5Krp95tNWo1Kt5oRck1cIxQ9Wf6+8yasir2XTWbrNtQNxKXLyEaZXbgmY4Z9ra Qkm6FL10VLrig== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4RgnSq1YsLz6twr; Wed, 6 Sep 2023 18:12:11 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <83pm2v1fyw.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:310207 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> > Not the output format, but the language: new directives and sometimes >> > markup are added with every release of Texinfo. Just read their NEWS >> > file. >> >> The way I see Org markup extension would make it easy to users add new >> custom markup, as needed. Then, no frequent changes to the base markup >> will be necessary to accommodate for less common use cases. > > You missed the "new directives" part. I do recommend reading their > NEWS to get the idea of the rate at which new features are added to > Texinfo. There is a single word "directives" in https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/texinfo.git/plain/NEWS: . #line directives are recognized. >> In other words, I do not see why Org should support every single Texinfo >> markup. We just need to provide enough support to be on par in terms of >> the needs of manual authors. > > GNU Manuals use a large portion of what Texinfo provides, and limiting > what they could use when they write in Org would mean some Texinfo > features cannot be used that way, which is a disadvantage. People > will have to think twice before they switch to Org, because at some > point they might want to use a feature you decided not to support. I understand. However, new features are added to Texinfo for a reason. If the same reason is valid for Org, equivalent features may be added. Similarly, we may add features to Org that have no equivalent in Texinfo. So, this is a normal development process with new features being proposed, discussed, and maybe added. >From my point of view, equivalence with Texinfo is not something we care as much about yet. It is just a general direction we can use for Org development. I deem it useful even if we cannot reach all the Texinfo features at the end. But if we can, we can _later_ see further about how we want to incorporate (or not) new Texinfo features. >> > That was for Org-to-Texinfo conversion. Here we are talking about >> > Org-to-Info, which is much more work. >> >> Why so? > > Because the production rules are much more complex. I suggest to take > a look at the Perl source code of texi2any to see what it entails. AFAIU, the conversion is done in /usr/share/texinfo/Texinfo/Convert/Info.pm I do not see anything extraordinary. Org uses similar approach - working with parse tree. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at