From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Where / when Emacs on Gitlab? 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID bcc50cae432e720a64b645698c87e1b7; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 08:52:40 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: (Psionic K.'s message of "Thu, 11 Jan 2024 15:22:12 +0900") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.22010 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.189.148; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic314-22.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:314841 Archived-At: Psionic K writes: > I only just caught Stefan's presentation on Emacs development > https://toobnix.org/w/m4XmrmE9Geat54AKT1RQaH > > I'm in favor of a relief valve for the email based workflows and > generally experienced at these sorts of CI and repo automation tools. > Most importantly in this email, I don't lurk on the mailing lists, so > someone feel free to reply to me directly to make sure we connect on > Gitlab etc whenever it's ready to happen. > > By the way, the largest downsides, which we can't see or measure on > email based systems, are representation (ad-hoc emoji votes provide a > lot of signal when following the Rust project) and survivor bias (we > never hear again from those pushed away by development style > preference). Without entering into detail, on every occasion where someone proposes that we move to this or that development process or software, the proposals and responses abound in praise of such software, but never offer to bring them into practice, whether by assisting with deploying the software or by developing new software to integrate it with our existing practices and procedures. Several lengthy discussions of this nature unfold every year in identical fashion, from which discussions the same conclusions are drawn and the same requests made, all of which have yet to be realized. The praise is written as though it makes up for the lack of initiative on the part of such proponents, and its subjects can range from features that could plausibly benefit us to functionality so far removed from actual software development that one wonders whether they are used for the novelty (or absurdity) factor alone. I mention this to point out that it's completely unnecessary--we don't need to be convinced by new additions to the litany of advantages that have already been cited as reasons to adopt such software, since the preferences some of our users have expressed are reason enough. What remains is to install the new software, so that these proposals can be implemented, and to take measures to guarantee continued access over existing interfaces to anyone who wants it, both to avoid disrupting existing habits and that more developers might be accommodated, instead of sacrificing one cohort for another. For this discussion to be productive, then, please resist the temptation to belabor the pros and cons of the workflows concerned, and focus on meeting the requirements we agreed on in its numerous predecessors instead. Thanks.