From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: C-l while in menu? Date: 24 Apr 2002 23:36:30 +0900 Organization: The XEmacs Project Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: <87wuuxp3ip.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1019659179 24110 127.0.0.1 (24 Apr 2002 14:39:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 14:39:39 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Ben Wing , emacs-devel@gnu.org, Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 170Nvn-0006Gl-00 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:39:39 +0200 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 170NxV-0004rm-00 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:41:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 170NvV-00058n-00; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:39:21 -0400 Original-Received: from tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.98.109]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 170NtY-0004wj-00 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:37:20 -0400 Original-Received: from steve by tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 170Nsl-0005zs-00; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:36:31 +0900 Original-To: Simon Josefsson In-Reply-To: Original-Lines: 44 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.4 (Common Lisp) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.51 (Python 2.1.3 on Linux/i686) Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:3181 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:3181 >>>>> "Simon" == Simon Josefsson writes: Simon> Yes, but menu accelerators doesn't seem to work by default Simon> in XEmacs [undex unix]. They don't; you have to explicitly enable them (on a one-shot basis) with `accelerate-menu' or (permanently) by setting the `menu-accelerator-enabled' variable. The option was part of the design; defaulting to off was equal parts backwards compatibility stubbornness on my part, and my horror at having M-f turned into File Menu when I first tried the accelerators. Simon> IMHO the F should only be underlined if it is possible to Simon> press Alt-F to open the File menu. A detail. Important, but relatively easy to describe and fix. Simon> Using M-S-f to open the File menu seems like a bad idea, as Simon> it is a step =away= from modern UI behaviour. That depends. In my case, it's a step =toward= it, as I want M-f to mean forward-word. I will only use the accelerators if the traditional bindings are still available. If I have both Alt and Meta keys, I'll use A-f to get the file menu, and M-f to move. If I don't, I'll arrange that the key engraved Alt generates the Meta keysym, and use M-S-f for the accelerator. I'd be willing to bet that "newbies" would learn this _very_ fast, as they'll find it much easier to remember "M-S- accelerates the menu" compared to the output of M-x wallpaper. If you want to get oldtimers to accept accelerators at all, they had better not interfere with muscle memory. So this seems like a reasonable compromise. I'm not clear whether I actually _like_ M-S-f as a normal way to do it. But I think it's less of a defect than you seem to think. There are much uglier things in the 21.4 implementation IMHO (such as the way Alt o t ESC ESC ESC generates an ESC keystroke, and the way ESC h gives me the Help Menu and not `mark-paragraph'). -- Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN Don't ask how you can "do" free software business; ask what your business can "do for" free software.