From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul R Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs Subject: Re: 23.0.60; M-( and M-) should not be bound in ESC map Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 19:10:07 +0200 Message-ID: <87wsn54owg.fsf@gmail.com> References: <003801c89a85$fcd95ad0$c2b22382@us.oracle.com> <20080410154940.GB7700@muc.de> <20080410162459.GC7700@muc.de> <47FE49FA.3080306@emf.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1207847461 25772 80.91.229.12 (10 Apr 2008 17:11:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 17:11:01 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Alan Mackenzie , Richard Stallman , emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org, Juanma Barranquero To: Thomas Lord Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 10 19:11:32 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Jk0Iq-0001Dm-NL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 19:11:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Jk0ID-0006Ag-33 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:10:33 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Jk0I8-000689-O2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:10:28 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Jk0I6-00064O-6a for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:10:28 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Jk0I6-00063M-2a for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:10:26 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Jk0I4-0006Bd-GW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:10:25 -0400 Original-Received: from mx10.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Jk0I3-0004pm-Cn for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:10:23 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Jk0Hv-00068U-9E for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:10:23 -0400 Original-Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.191]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Jk0Ht-000677-5Q for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:10:13 -0400 Original-Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id f5so54425nfh.26 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 10:10:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:to:cc:subject:references:from:date:message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=xuVcdxGCKSzY4Gf7isGlDa+6bNjv9tvdZtXLEk2Sruk=; b=b36v1KgpT3F6LqvAPI1gZWpK6hJreRBX8IHuWmCSWFPpKwoilnqUuODQ6NWZtFHggxmrnswBbkKMdpYyS0NJOR52+2SwYQPcJzq7yRHpBS3powbfchcCkaGF0vO/vZ/uC7ULJit/GYnPk1ZjlN421vCWShtrEnaPG5XvPd4CkNc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=to:cc:subject:references:from:date:message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type; b=u2yme8sfSxgD1AN25D5oIal1MNh3RvhDvyDQfa9+C2XbfwDqfMVAUrQZcV24GXn/TNX0JrQDxjt64xgQTCnsXKQoOPmqbzNHA8medkFYNr7x3GECRqiReEsocXEREtV2i+NsHv+EAq0S3X56zryfFzjPRuasMQVQBZIa7xlOeVU= Original-Received: by 10.86.71.1 with SMTP id t1mr3511877fga.7.1207847409270; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 10:10:09 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from ubuT42 ( [82.242.132.111]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l19sm1682704fgb.0.2008.04.10.10.10.07 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 10 Apr 2008 10:10:08 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.1 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:94884 gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs:21964 Archived-At: Thomas Lord writes: > And that observation ("whose got the time?") points out where the > deeper problem is: > > The GNU project doesn't have enough money. > At least, it would surely benefit from more manpower. Hence, it would need more people contributing on their free time. So how to get them ? I don't have an out-of-the-box solution to sell, but as a start I would recommend to show respect and listening to contributors, so that they can feel they are part of the project, and not only free manpower. Somebody wrote recently that emacs never was a democratic project, and that masses are coming to Gnu, not the other way round. Although I'm not sure if that was a joke or not, I highly recommand to check that masses are still coming to Gnu Emacs. I doubt it, sincerely. If Gnu Emacs wants more contributors, let's start to *face* what are preventing them to come. As a start, some "long-settled aspects of Emacs" should probably get revamped, and talking about them here is a good start, IMO. Ignoring that will lead to a vicious circle. Please don't get me wrong, I really like Gnu Emacs, but being new in emacs development, I can report all the obstacles I'm facing on this path. with much respect to emacs contributors, past and present, -- Paul