From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Documentation of transient-mark-mode is sloppy, wrong, and confused. Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 11:09:12 +0900 Message-ID: <87ws7wbt87.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <20090528122927.GA2175@muc.de> <87fxepf9s8.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <20090528201529.GA4605@muc.de> <87bppdx8c0.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <20090528230359.GA1474@muc.de> <83zlcwqp89.fsf@gnu.org> <871vq8cjxq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83zlcw43nc.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1243821945 19890 80.91.229.12 (1 Jun 2009 02:05:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 02:05:45 +0000 (UTC) Cc: acm@muc.de, cyd@stupidchicken.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jun 01 04:05:41 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MAwuC-0003pz-7F for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 01 Jun 2009 04:05:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44319 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MAwuB-0007iO-Fx for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 31 May 2009 22:05:39 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MAwu6-0007i6-7h for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 31 May 2009 22:05:34 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MAwu0-0007hO-Jj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 31 May 2009 22:05:33 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=46237 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MAwu0-0007hL-E4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 31 May 2009 22:05:28 -0400 Original-Received: from mtps02.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.224]:59062) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MAwtu-0007Gc-K3; Sun, 31 May 2009 22:05:22 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mtps02.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E880D820E; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 11:05:10 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8EDB8120C0B; Mon, 1 Jun 2009 11:09:12 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: <83zlcw43nc.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: VM 8.0.12-devo-585 under 21.5 (beta28) "fuki" 83e35df20028+ XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:111229 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > > From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > > > > > email. Sorry for the poor wording - it's late and I'm tired. > > > > > > > > I would find this fairly confusing > > > > > > So would I. If you read this text carefully, it actually says > > > something like "the region is active when Emacs marks it as active." > > > That's hardly a definition of what "active" is. > > > > Read a little more carefully. It also explains how the behavior of > > Emacs changes when the mark is active. That *is* a definition of > > "active". > > Right, but that "definition-through-behavior" was exactly what Alan > opposed to in the first place! No. Alan objected to d-t-b where "behavior" refers to "how to make Emacs 'activate' the mark" (behavior changes activity). What he wants is "how does Emacs's behavior change when the mark is 'active'?" (activity changes behavior). These are quite different.