From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Bastien Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: line-move-visual Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 06:26:19 +0200 Message-ID: <87ws6hupsk.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> References: <200907092112.21879.jem@iki.fi> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1247200006 16395 80.91.229.12 (10 Jul 2009 04:26:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 04:26:46 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Johan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Myr=E9en?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 10 06:26:38 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MP7h0-0007yx-4x for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 10 Jul 2009 06:26:38 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46166 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MP7gz-0000UJ-Fu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 10 Jul 2009 00:26:37 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MP7gu-0000Rc-2n for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jul 2009 00:26:32 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MP7gp-0000L6-Le for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jul 2009 00:26:31 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=37420 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MP7gp-0000Kw-Dv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jul 2009 00:26:27 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pz0-f197.google.com ([209.85.222.197]:49181) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MP7gp-0001BQ-3k for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jul 2009 00:26:27 -0400 Original-Received: by pzk35 with SMTP id 35so429756pzk.14 for ; Thu, 09 Jul 2009 21:26:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:to:cc:subject :in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=boemxupfiWpo7NboonLLiYYMOSpKpKUsNCfYhphQs8E=; b=ZKjb0ugXJqHmulnvOtQf8REfcQWWWn66GTq6n1hXQcZlzz3xZecvRu5o7+s1exApE3 76PEB7j1VfmpX5U0IzPLxS6/JxLf3+yQzXAzfGmzDJofuK5extoHuxI+unBon0y91CzD wRiSWXLeFtF5hMr67X3jngwPsFJmuI6kn5wgU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date :message-id:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=JiVUDFZBOulYINTD9hwye9u0Vqbz/M1Q+rZh4mFqsweKRJNpm1OTTPa5ada6IzQebo /Sc7RqT3qps7UjOQJ/ukcxjoEG3oz0vR6faGqSlYAJNlSWmeM3IoODHHTsIAYWbfHHKY 9Qj8K4uYrQX05Gulp09OMc+sifm/xuENN6UdA= Original-Received: by 10.141.40.2 with SMTP id s2mr490225rvj.1.1247199985628; Thu, 09 Jul 2009 21:26:25 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from bzg.ath.cx ([162.105.161.119]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k2sm3667781rvb.12.2009.07.09.21.26.23 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 09 Jul 2009 21:26:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200907092112.21879.jem@iki.fi> ("Johan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Myr=E9?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?en=22's?= message of "Thu, 9 Jul 2009 21:12:21 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:112270 Archived-At: Johan Myréen writes: > Could somebody please explain to me what the idea behind the new concept of > "visual lines" in Emacs is? Take your breath and deep into this discussion: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel/101560 I also agree the default for `line-move-visual' should be nil. Some other developers expressed their dislike about visual line mode in many ways. See this recent comment on orgmode list: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/15224 > Emacs has always been a "line-oriented" editor, i.e. the buffer consists of > logical lines. These lines can occasionally wrap so that they spill over to > the next visual line, but the main concept is still the logical line. This has > been the mindset of Emacs users since the dawn of time. > > I was shocked to find out that this doesn't seem to be true anymore: by > default C-n and C-p do not move to the next and previous logical lines, but > instead place the cursor on the next or previous visible line. I find this > totally counterintuitive. So do I. IIRC we never had a vote about this issue - maybe it's time to have it. > Yes, I know the old behaviour can be restored: after some digging I found out > about the line-move-visual variable. Couldn't the default be nil instead of t? > > Please do not forget what Gnu Emacs stands for: Generally Not Used, Except by > Middle-Aged Computer Scientists. With changes like this you risk alienating > the few of us that are left. Hey! Stay here. I hope we'll fix this. -- Bastien