From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Karl Fogel Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: bzr repository ready? Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:31:16 -0600 Message-ID: <87ws18asa3.fsf@red-bean.com> References: <831vjrptha.fsf@gnu.org> <87einr63b6.fsf@telefonica.net> <83y6lzo9e7.fsf@gnu.org> <871vjr750o.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83tywnnq34.fsf@gnu.org> <873a475bsr.fsf@telefonica.net> <87ocmu7x9c.fsf@red-bean.com> <87zl6crij4.fsf@red-bean.com> <87fx82856l.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87ws1cqqhm.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87skbzqgaj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <874ooeynyr.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87vdgu9d5j.fsf@telefonica.net> Reply-To: Karl Fogel NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1259599678 1140 80.91.229.12 (30 Nov 2009 16:47:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:47:58 +0000 (UTC) Cc: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes , stephen@xemacs.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 30 17:47:51 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1NF9Pg-0004ON-HU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 17:47:49 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35921 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NF9Pf-0007yu-Qs for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 11:47:47 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NF99u-00028n-Sj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 11:31:31 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NF99o-00022N-RO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 11:31:28 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=44624 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NF99o-00021s-68 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 11:31:24 -0500 Original-Received: from sanpietro.red-bean.com ([66.146.206.141]:50301) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NF99l-0005fJ-Ml; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 11:31:21 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40244 helo=kfogel-work ident=kfogel) by sanpietro.red-bean.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NF99i-00066w-LE; Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:31:19 -0600 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:52:10 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:117972 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > Everytime I open a technical document and see that the vertical > scrollbar thumb fills a good chunk of its allowed space, I feel > relieved. So I prefer to keep my document on its own page, where it > looks shorter. Perhaps putting a text at the end of your document like > "if you think that this is insanely complicated there is a simpler, less > powerful approach described on BzrQuickStartForEmacsDevs" > > The simpler approach should be the first recommendation we mention, > because it will be right for more people, and so that those people > won't get discouraged trying to understand the more complex approach. We should point people first to BzrForEmacsDevs (which describes a natively distributed setup), and just make sure that people know the other approaches are available if they want that. Elsewhere, I have seen people new to Bazaar make the mistake of trying an approach that seemed "simpler" to them (usually similar to what they were accustomed to from CVS and Subversion), only to pay the price later when most other Bazaar users couldn't support them or understand the way they were working -- because what they were doing was so different from the way one works with Bazaar once one knows Bazaar. Once you understand Bazaar, BzrForEmacsDevs actually feels *less* complex (because it uses the default type of branch and a standard distributed workflow), while BzrQuickStartForEmacsDevs feels more complex (because it involves a bound branch and a non-distributed workflow). Offering options is not itself a problem, as long as we help people choose among those options. All our documents should make clear that the native dVCS approach is the recommended way, and that the quick-start way should be considered a stopgap. Then each person will be informed enough to make the right decision for them. The way to do that is to point to the full dVCS way by default, while making sure that the quick-start way is readily available, and that the relationship between the documents is clear. -Karl