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From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org>
To: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com>
Cc: "'Juri Linkov'" <juri@jurta.org>,
	"Jan Djärv" <jan.h.d@swipnet.se>,
	"'Stefan Monnier'" <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>,
	"'Emacs Dev [emacs-devel]'" <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
Subject: RE: Gtk tabs in emacs, new branch.
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 19:30:48 +0900	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87wrwa2unb.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <130DBB4176F64517BC3B37A475FD979B@us.oracle.com>

Drew Adams writes:

 > >  > I want a tab to be able to invoke any function whatever.
 > > 
 > > While perhaps sufficient generality may require that ability, remember
 > > that tabs as a metaphor are *not* just a contiguous row of buttons.
 > > They are ordered,
 > 
 > Yes.
 > 
 > > and they "do the same thing" (but to different objects).
 > 
 > How so?
 >
 > It's not clear to me, for example, what you mean by tabs
 > (necessarily) doing the same thing to different objects.

Those are scare quotes.  I wouldn't have quoted if I was able to
*define* "do the same thing"!

Let me start with some definitions: A *tab bar* (what in my previous
post I called a "tab control") is a widget which contains several
*tabs*, and (usually) a *pane* in which some kind of content is
displayed.  (In the implementation discussed below I assume the pane
is an Emacs window, but that need not be true.)  *Tabs* are clickable
buttons, but they only appear as part of a tab bar.  Within a tab bar,
there is a distinguished *top tab*.  In cases where the tabs control a
specific pane in the display, the top tab is the one associated with
the currently visible content.  Tabs may also be ordered from left to
right (assuming a horizontal orientation to avoid overloading the word
"top").  The top tab need not be leftmost, but is always visible and
visually distinguishable (unless the user has selected a weird face).

Clicking on an individual tab will cause some action to occur, usually
reflected by a change in the appearance of the content.  It always
causes the clicked tab to become the top tab.

 > Apart from the GUI aspects (including the display question), I see
 > a tab bar as an ordered sequence of named (Lisp) thingies that you
 > can select (e.g. by clicking). I therefore think of an alist, where
 > the keys are the tab names and the values are arbitrary Lisp
 > objects.

That's very adequately represented visually by a toolbar.  Why do you
want to duplicate the functionality of toolbars in tab bars?

 > Unlike the case for menus, the structure of the VALUE part of a
 > bookmark is quite flexible and open (e.g. to user definition), and
 > the associated action (handler) need not be an Emacs command
 > (`interactive'). A default handler applies, if none is present
 > explicitly. To me, the bookmark model is quite general and
 > corresponds conceptually to a tab: a named Lisp value that can
 > represent some action to be performed when the tab is selected.

"All hope abandon ye who enter here."  That's a toolbar.  (But I
repeat myself.  "What I say three times is true."  Wait for it!)  If
toolbars have the restrictions that menus do (which are hardly
restrictive, actually; anything that can take a function symbol as a
value can implement arbitrary behavior), you can bet that tabs will
suffer the same restrictions.

 > I mentioned that I would also like to be able to perform certain
 > operations on the tabs of a given tab bar that are similar to
 > operations that I perform on a list of bookmarks: (1) sort the tabs
 > in various ways, based on both NAME and VALUE, (2) mark the tabs
 > and then perform operations on the marked tabs, (3) hide certain
 > tabs (e.g. those marked), (4) show a set of tabs that might not
 > already have been shown and then hidden (e.g. to "open" a project
 > that involves multiple tabs). And so on.
 >
 > And I mentioned that (bookmark+) bookmarks can be tagged
 > (del.icio.us-style), which would mean that tabs would be tagged, so
 > you could easily manipulate sets of tabs - e.g. all the tabs that
 > correspond to a particular project or query.
 > 
 > IOW, individual tabs can be selected, yes, but code (hence users)
 > should also be able to act on sets of tabs in various ways.

Sure.  A tab bar will surely be visible to Lisp as a sequence of some
kind, and accessed by a variable.  I don't see why any of the things
you describe above will be prevented by any particular implementation
of the action invoked by a tab.

 > What I'm concerned about is having the generality of associating an
 > arbitrary handler with each tab.

That's a toolbar.  Q.E.D.

If you really really need both the visual cues provided by a tab bar,
and an arbitrary handler for each tab, then (using your alist
representation, which is probably as good as any other) you could have

(defun my-tab-handler (tab ignored-datum)    ; all tab handlers take 2 args
  (let ((name (nth 0 tab))
        (handler (nth 1 tab))
        (tab-data (nthcdr 2 tab)))
    (message "handling tab '%s'" name)
    (apply handler tab-data)))

as the handler, and the tab bar would be represented in Lisp as
something like

("This establishment serves only 17-year-old Scottish tabs." ; name/doc
 my-tab-handler
 (random)          ; random tab-bar-wide datum, not used by my-tab-handler
 ("One name"       handler-1   various data)
 ("Another name"   handler-2   some    information)
 ;; etc etc
 )

But in most cases, having tab-specific handlers is probably a bad fit
for the tab metaphor.  Use a toolbar.  If your problem with that is
that Emacs toolbars are too restrictive, then fix the restrictions.

OTOH, a typical over-simplified buffer tab bar would be handled by

(defun buffer-tab-handler (tab tab-controlled-window)
  (with-selected-window tab-controlled-window
    (switch-to-buffer (second tab))))

(defun make-buffer-tabs (how-many controlled-window)
  (let ((buffers (buffer-list))
        (tabs '(controlled-window buffer-tab-handler "buffer tab")))
    (while (and buffers (> how-many 0))
      (setq tabs (cons (list (buffer-name (car buffers)) (car buffers))
                       tabs))
      (setq how-many (1- how-many))
      (setq buffers (cdr buffers)))
    (reverse tabs)))





  reply	other threads:[~2010-04-14 10:30 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 154+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2010-04-09  9:47 Gtk tabs in emacs, new branch A. Soare
2010-04-09 11:15 ` Jan D.
2010-04-10  1:22   ` Stefan Monnier
2010-04-10  1:36     ` Juri Linkov
2010-04-10  6:12       ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-11  1:16         ` Juri Linkov
2010-04-11 12:50           ` Tobias C. Rittweiler
2010-04-11 15:40             ` David De La Harpe Golden
2010-04-11 15:28           ` David De La Harpe Golden
2010-04-11 16:05             ` Stefan Monnier
2010-04-11 18:32               ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-12 23:47                 ` Juri Linkov
2010-04-13  3:50                   ` Stefan Monnier
2010-04-13  5:29                     ` Juri Linkov
2010-04-13 13:05                       ` Stefan Monnier
2010-04-13 23:34                         ` Header windows (was: Gtk tabs in emacs, new branch.) Juri Linkov
2010-04-14  5:03                         ` Gtk tabs in emacs, new branch Richard Stallman
2010-04-14 14:30                           ` Stefan Monnier
2010-04-13  6:53                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-04-13 12:28                       ` Stefan Monnier
2010-04-13  5:53                   ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-13 12:30                     ` Stefan Monnier
2010-04-13 20:54                       ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-21 16:58                       ` Text in Gtk tool bar. (Was: Gtk tabs in emacs, new branch.) Jan Djärv
2010-04-23  8:35                         ` Juri Linkov
2010-04-23  9:33                           ` Jan D.
2010-04-23 16:46                             ` Juri Linkov
2010-04-23 17:47                               ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-11 18:09             ` Gtk tabs in emacs, new branch Drew Adams
2010-04-12 23:45             ` Juri Linkov
2010-04-13  2:42               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-04-13  6:29                 ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-13 17:59                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-04-13 18:15                   ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-13 18:44                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-04-10  1:47     ` Lennart Borgman
2010-04-10  2:19       ` Juri Linkov
2010-04-10  6:15       ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-10  9:14         ` Lennart Borgman
2010-04-10  9:46           ` joakim
2010-04-10 10:18             ` Lennart Borgman
2010-04-10 11:01               ` joakim
2010-04-10 12:38               ` Štěpán Němec
2010-04-10 14:58               ` Stefan Monnier
2010-04-10 10:58             ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-10 12:09               ` joakim
2010-04-11  1:18             ` Juri Linkov
2010-04-10 10:52           ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-10  5:51     ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-10 15:19       ` Stefan Monnier
2010-04-10 15:33         ` Chong Yidong
2010-04-10 18:51           ` Stefan Monnier
2010-04-10 16:10         ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-10 16:40           ` David De La Harpe Golden
2010-04-10 17:06             ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-10 16:42           ` Davis Herring
2010-04-10 17:11             ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-10 17:16               ` Davis Herring
2010-04-10 17:54                 ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-10 18:44                   ` David De La Harpe Golden
2010-04-10 19:14                     ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-10 19:51                       ` David De La Harpe Golden
2010-04-10 21:12                       ` Stefan Monnier
2010-04-11 10:56                         ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-11 15:09                           ` Stefan Monnier
2010-04-10 19:00           ` Stefan Monnier
2010-04-10 19:07             ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-10 19:56               ` David De La Harpe Golden
2010-04-12 16:14         ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-12 19:18           ` Stefan Monnier
2010-04-12 20:22             ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-12 21:02               ` Stefan Monnier
2010-04-13 15:08         ` René Kyllingstad
2010-04-10 16:06       ` David De La Harpe Golden
2010-04-11 12:11       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-04-11 18:09         ` Drew Adams
2010-04-12 23:49           ` Juri Linkov
2010-04-13  2:58             ` Drew Adams
2010-04-13  4:11               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-04-13 16:15                 ` Drew Adams
2010-04-14 10:30                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull [this message]
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2010-04-13 19:53 grischka
2010-04-10 17:33 A. Soare
2010-04-09 13:33 A. Soare
2010-04-01 16:52 Angelo Graziosi
2010-04-01 17:45 ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-01 18:03   ` Juri Linkov
2010-04-01 20:18     ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-02  7:10       ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-01 20:51   ` Angelo Graziosi
2010-04-02  6:49     ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-02  9:21       ` Angelo Graziosi
2010-04-02  2:06   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-04-02  7:00     ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-02  6:53 ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-02  9:59   ` Angelo Graziosi
2010-04-02 15:10     ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-02 16:55       ` Angelo Graziosi
2010-04-05  8:50       ` Angelo Graziosi
2010-04-10 12:44         ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-10 17:34           ` Angelo Graziosi
2010-04-10 18:03             ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-10 22:09               ` Angelo Graziosi
2010-04-11  5:45                 ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-11  8:16                   ` Angelo Graziosi
2010-04-11 10:52                     ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-11 17:28                       ` Angelo Graziosi
2010-04-11 18:33                         ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-21  8:55                         ` Juri Linkov
2010-04-21  9:46                           ` David Kastrup
2010-04-21 15:43                             ` Juri Linkov
     [not found]                               ` <jwv633k4rn2.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
2010-04-22  8:16                                 ` Juri Linkov
2010-04-22 15:08                                   ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-23  8:33                                     ` Juri Linkov
2010-04-21 13:54                           ` Angelo Graziosi
2010-04-21 15:45                           ` Juri Linkov
2010-04-21 16:04                             ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-22  8:14                               ` Juri Linkov
2010-04-22 16:20                                 ` Juanma Barranquero
2010-04-24 18:45                                   ` Juri Linkov
2010-04-23 16:53                             ` Drew Adams
2010-04-23 18:02                               ` Juri Linkov
2010-04-23 18:28                                 ` Drew Adams
2010-04-24  9:17                                   ` Juri Linkov
2010-04-24 14:41                                     ` Drew Adams
2010-04-24 18:49                                       ` Juri Linkov
2010-04-24 19:24                                         ` Drew Adams
2010-04-25  5:36                                           ` Juri Linkov
2010-04-25  9:15                                             ` martin rudalics
2010-04-10 19:19             ` Stefan Monnier
2010-04-02 16:19     ` Uwe Siart
2010-04-02 18:31       ` Daniel Colascione
2010-04-02 20:38         ` Stefan Monnier
2010-04-03  6:29         ` Uwe Siart
2010-04-03  9:07           ` Uwe Siart
2010-04-02  6:53 ` Uwe Siart
2010-04-02  7:25   ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-04 11:01     ` Juri Linkov
2010-04-02 12:19   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-04-01 13:07 Jan Djärv
2010-04-01 13:24 ` Leo
2010-04-01 18:02 ` Juri Linkov
2010-04-01 20:13   ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-09 23:27     ` Juri Linkov
2010-04-09 23:54       ` Drew Adams
2010-04-10  0:17         ` Juri Linkov
2010-04-10  2:56       ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
2010-04-11  1:06         ` Juri Linkov
2010-04-01 18:50 ` Chong Yidong
2010-04-01 20:08   ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-01 20:09   ` Jan Djärv
2010-04-01 21:53   ` Stefan Monnier
2010-04-09  7:23 ` alin.s
2010-04-09  9:34   ` Jan D.

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