From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: BEGIN_SRC..END_SRC Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 22:51:05 +0900 Message-ID: <87wr4km9fa.fsf@catnip.gol.com> References: <871umzrvfw.fsf@gmail.com> <83d36j59gv.fsf@gnu.org> <87r4uz58e3.fsf@sec.modprobe.de> <83aa1n57p4.fsf@gnu.org> <5D17181ED92C4552AE8D4404DD035CA0@us.oracle.com> <87vck8sfyv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <85obq05aua.fsf@iznogoud.viz> <87r4uvs4ae.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87397b15u7.fsf@gnu.org> <87y5p2nhc3.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87k40lsfuv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87k40ljtay.fsf@gmx.com> <87fwb8sdeh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <877gwkzcsm.fsf@gmail.com> <878vh0rz75.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1336657887 29223 80.91.229.3 (10 May 2012 13:51:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 13:51:27 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Yann Hodique , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu May 10 15:51:26 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SSTmA-0006Mp-4z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 10 May 2012 15:51:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35854 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SSTm9-00084q-IM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 10 May 2012 09:51:25 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:53945) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SSTm1-000830-97 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 May 2012 09:51:23 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SSTlu-00029s-Uv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 May 2012 09:51:16 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp12.dentaku.gol.com ([203.216.5.74]:34756) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SSTlu-00029Q-Fg; Thu, 10 May 2012 09:51:10 -0400 Original-Received: from 61.245.23.153.eo.eaccess.ne.jp ([61.245.23.153] helo=catnip.gol.com) by smtp12.dentaku.gol.com with esmtpa (Dentaku) (envelope-from ) id 1SSTlq-00040T-9v; Thu, 10 May 2012 22:51:06 +0900 Original-Received: by catnip.gol.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 46879DFC2; Thu, 10 May 2012 22:51:05 +0900 (JST) System-Type: x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu In-Reply-To: <878vh0rz75.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (Stephen J. Turnbull's message of "Thu, 10 May 2012 21:35:26 +0900") Original-Lines: 42 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV GOL (outbound) X-Abuse-Complaints: abuse@gol.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 203.216.5.74 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:150419 Archived-At: "Stephen J. Turnbull" writes: > > Only [Gnus] we can fix. So in any case, I don't believe we can > > ever afford not to emit the text/plain alternative for dumb (yet > > potentially even conformant) MUAs. > > Maybe. > > But given that we know that Gmail deliberately goes out of its way > to suck in our community (eg, encouraging top-posting, which has its > place but it ain't here[1]), I don't really think we should consider > problems with Gmail an argument against using standard constructs. > If Thunderbird or nmh or mutt has issues or > whatever-the-GNOMEish-MUA-is does, that's another matter. That doesn't make any sense at all.... Gmail doesn't "go out of it's way to suck in our community" any more than any other popular mail client does; AFAICT, its main sin is that they too readily follow bad examples set by _other_ popular mail MUAs... [Top-posting being the obvious example: annoying may it be, it's pretty much the way things are done everywhere except the hardcore ye-olde-unix-users community; people _expect_ it.] Gmail is representive of "the unwashed wider world", although it's far better than many other common examples of such. Much of the fancy cool stuff Gnus does correctly is badly supported _everywhere_, not just by gmail. So while I think it's silly to ignore gmail, because it's vastly more popular than Gnus, if you still want to for whatever reason, it _still_ seems a bad idea to ignore the general class of mail clients it represents.... I think that basically, unless you _know_ that most of your readership is using Gnus or some other client that properly handles all these funny cases, you have to be kind of conservative in what you send. It sucks I suppose, but whatever. To be honest, correct font-locking of Emacs lisp is such a fringe issue that it's hard to care very much... -miles -- We live, as we dream -- alone....