From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jay Belanger Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Yet another discussion on improving the first time user experience Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2013 19:28:14 -0500 Message-ID: <87wqm8mlep.fsf@gmail.com> References: <523ED74D.4030205@online.de> <87ioxs4zc9.fsf@informatimago.com> <87k3i8vj93.fsf@yandex.ru> <83bo3kk6hh.fsf@gnu.org> <87eh8gzee5.fsf@yandex.ru> <871u4go1bp.fsf@gmail.com> Reply-To: jay.p.belanger@gmail.com NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1379896119 19334 80.91.229.3 (23 Sep 2013 00:28:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 00:28:39 +0000 (UTC) Cc: jay.p.belanger@gmail.com, Emacs-Devel devel To: Lennart Borgman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 23 02:28:42 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VNu13-0008CG-Hy for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 23 Sep 2013 02:28:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37119 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VNu12-0006OK-Pf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 22 Sep 2013 20:28:40 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33271) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VNu0r-0006O9-Ls for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Sep 2013 20:28:38 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VNu0j-0004ER-8H for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Sep 2013 20:28:29 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ie0-x22c.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22c]:62171) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VNu0j-0004EM-2J for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Sep 2013 20:28:21 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ie0-f172.google.com with SMTP id x13so5251343ief.31 for ; Sun, 22 Sep 2013 17:28:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:reply-to:cc:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=4TyVDZAAafoQf6kHoB+uXBC6Ep/7OHU/pHv068jR3oM=; b=Z/lKtWHWZv24Pmj30dZCQVEHVE/IwaPUiQRvMZh+HXUCRQZQ4mjixyOS9VtCm/NjS5 s4W+uRec0T2YmGHhpCGJlaPWnA6rRL0i1nIp9ce0x5EzSdRF7BLYz6AirAr5B+RTUk5i 56HhpmLLW2pzkmHhS5tRgyRCgwWP9jELW0cEo6ttldtD28ThgKl9MYVAv8Qi/OCc9XqF FqS23Vye4CwymI/XN4TIsh9qQldIgGvYWTyPEknRriTYQCDQcu+7Io61r3fusZgpS69i Ke17oKzXQ/VoAjq8ynI0iUEKuu7mGrsg9yxo9zLdqHqGzLoPAZg9PjcFOF/kAuHDsyeG I2lA== X-Received: by 10.43.162.136 with SMTP id mk8mr11492031icc.9.1379896100164; Sun, 22 Sep 2013 17:28:20 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from belanger-home (184-155-87-143.cpe.cableone.net. [184.155.87.143]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id e8sm16069537igy.1.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 22 Sep 2013 17:28:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Lennart Borgman's message of "Mon, 23 Sep 2013 02:18:44 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22c X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:163561 Archived-At: > The tutorial kind of throws other keybindings than the arrow keys on > the new user. Kind of patronizing if someone asks me. ;-) If the question is >>> Really, why should I have to read a tutorial >>> that forces me to use strange and awkward key-bindings just to figure >>> out how to move the cursor around the screen effectively and scroll >>> the window?! (leaving aside the "strange and awkward" comment) the answer is "you don't have to".