From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Sivaram Neelakantan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs terminology (not again!?) [was: Apologia for bzr] Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2014 18:43:31 +0530 Message-ID: <87wqhx5t6s.fsf@gmail.com> References: <877gact76s.fsf@gnu.org> <34c8c13b-c5c6-4e5a-9248-b09d5d1936da@default> <87eh4hkq6c.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83y52dk82n.fsf@gnu.org> <87zjmtwqtv.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87mwitwmn5.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1390050842 10617 80.91.229.3 (18 Jan 2014 13:14:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2014 13:14:02 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 18 14:14:08 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W4Viw-0005vh-HH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 18 Jan 2014 14:14:06 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42862 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W4Viw-0004Sk-3G for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 18 Jan 2014 08:14:06 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36315) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W4Vim-0004Ra-IC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jan 2014 08:14:03 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W4Vif-0000QI-96 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jan 2014 08:13:56 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:58540) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W4Vif-0000Q2-29 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jan 2014 08:13:49 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W4Vie-0005gv-9X for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jan 2014 14:13:48 +0100 Original-Received: from 122.167.108.7 ([122.167.108.7]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2014 14:13:48 +0100 Original-Received: from nsivaram.net by 122.167.108.7 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 18 Jan 2014 14:13:48 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 20 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 122.167.108.7 User-Mail-Address: nsivaram.net@gmail.com User-Agent: Gnus/5.130007 (Ma Gnus v0.7) Emacs/24.3 (windows-nt) Cancel-Lock: sha1:FNAu+r6/qXEYrWEg4QrcvjhA/0A= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:168678 Archived-At: On Sat, Jan 18 2014,David Kastrup wrote: [snipped 92 lines] > In the long run, we need to make sure that Emacs remains comprehensible > to Emacs users. That does not preclude changing keybindings and > concepts, but getting multiple concurrent warring keybindings and > concepts sorted by various heuristics is not the way to simplicity. No offence to the CUA/EVIL developers but don't these 2 modes get in the way of Emacs mastery as David says. I can understand someone asking for the vi . (dot command) functionality equivalent in Emacs but why humour them with modes that are at cross purposes to Emacs proficiency? Here, simplicity begets simple users(with no offence to their intelligence, just Emacs mastery) sivaram --