From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Lisp's future Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 05:46:07 +0200 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <87wq91si9s.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <87wq97i78i.fsf@earlgrey.lan> <87sijqxzr2.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <878uliwajb.fsf@taylan.uni.cx> <87lhpitg6t.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87wq92uhwh.fsf@taylan.uni.cx> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1411015258 7766 80.91.229.3 (18 Sep 2014 04:40:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 04:40:58 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 18 06:40:51 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XUTWU-0005cy-AK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 06:40:50 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48451 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XUTWT-0008WT-Vu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 00:40:49 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58463) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XUTW2-0008VP-U8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 00:40:30 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XUTVv-0007c0-9C for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 00:40:22 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:40932) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XUTVv-0007bb-34 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 00:40:15 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XUSfl-0008B2-9h for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 05:46:21 +0200 Original-Received: from x2f502b3.dyn.telefonica.de ([2.245.2.179]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 05:46:21 +0200 Original-Received: from dak by x2f502b3.dyn.telefonica.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 05:46:21 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 38 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: x2f502b3.dyn.telefonica.de X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:okccfLQ7O22Xb3jgN3gBrruiu0U= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:174480 Archived-At: Taylan Ulrich Bayirli/Kammer writes: > Guile on the other hand is GNU software; it's the official GNU > extension language that's being massively revitalized to be worth of > its name. GCC, GDB, and more can be extended in Guile. It's tied > with Guix as well; the package manager for the upcoming official GNU > distribution. After so many years, things are really getting together > in technical terms in the GNU project, and Guile is what's pulling it > all together. The music typesetter GNU LilyPond is one of the oldest GNU projects using GUILE. So far, its attempts to port from GUILE 1.8 to GUILE 2.0 have crashed and burnt (current state is inexplicable scoping problems and crashes in random locations). As a consequence, it will get removed from Debian next February when Debian discontinues support of GUILE 1.8. LilyPond's lead developer (yours truly) has been banned from posting on the GUILE developer list years ago. There have been few private offers from GUILE developers to help with the porting, but after being provided the necessary information, the contacts have gone dead. LilyPond is the only GUILE-based GNU project that I know of that integrates Scheme as tightly into the basic system and language as it would be expected from Emacs, defining dozens of native data types in C++. And it does not even have the Elisp/Scheme discrepancy to deal with. It is an actively maintained project with dozens of developers and thousands of users and will disappear from Debian-based distributions next year. If Emacs developers would happen to fall from grace and/or the GUILE developers get tired of dealing with the expectable host of problems and just stop answering calls because of the initial enthusiasm wearing down under a lack of man power, I don't see what would promise a substantially different ending there. -- David Kastrup