From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Michael Heerdegen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: The poor state of documentation of pcase like things. Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 21:58:42 +0100 Message-ID: <87wpsakvel.fsf@web.de> References: <20151216202605.GA3752@acm.fritz.box> <877fkatpct.fsf@web.de> <83d1u2v0bw.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1450558758 2025 80.91.229.3 (19 Dec 2015 20:59:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2015 20:59:18 +0000 (UTC) Cc: acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org, kaushal.modi@gmail.com To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 19 21:59:11 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aAOas-0004vB-Lw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 21:59:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38612 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aAOar-00073z-VW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 15:59:09 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:43177) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aAOae-00073r-S0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 15:58:57 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aAOad-0008Jp-Sa for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 15:58:56 -0500 Original-Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.15.3]:62309) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aAOaY-0008GQ-1a; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 15:58:50 -0500 Original-Received: from drachen.dragon ([90.186.0.6]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb003) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MYw31-1ZfrBm2Ap1-00Vez0; Sat, 19 Dec 2015 21:58:45 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83d1u2v0bw.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 19 Dec 2015 19:02:11 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:OMfkoKcTp4JgOws7X6/iY6lh5fko47igT2uT/CIaijXzOk4FgYi eXU6GjjdDNAGBxuMYSHGzrevdxW45KcRfCZDvrEERITBWRqn9eBkL9DPfiX0+veWvuay44B 5AL1ZAxeHuUMSoUD+OOPpfbmvhfktBCaGHCS4b57AX7P8/OE0eE+khrN2cALXx+X0h4uHuL XSA0uwNRfsAHr86ndc5TA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:DRf7C0Fl81I=:7waz64xkBmNx9Z91w/qHbC tXgLB1fz8UMiYM+aHnIR+xzBDgfh8itOSOVXKtc8Ve6Glvomd+UWBlZ6YGfkNfERczLp/f1Y9 begKTKLa2rOdEcIhjyDbF1ThaL1mepeEMONREse/GuCePwuk/ZgnpQzl9pHyAF7BU7qocllam bZhKh2QwPkHVXM/LlJeNyOntu5O+1f8O60K6ZpmS7qVYCfR9OmnZgwj+i5fDhu7ULCiRHMIBj 9icd0HaQWu1+6mnrNt0CzczDm6fgrsHPVZG0U9XALv8F70Pb+E33/uLhCGTNeiv8AwccCsbtm gW9Gw6SRkTXIJ5CgWoT3wrA0WDV/jhzcnCc6UOw4L5jC42/ainpun0ylBijQEosxLtGIstQIC 6JkZLpBYdeYrAwmqVDi3J7YlkWauAN+F6Ef4P8VplM1/NXfC8wa8cLhaN3rqlFjO7uFZM6+TF oASPngO/fDiZL+Kmvq1l/8tEe6rewvIzjzk50y3opAkPhQeoUVgnMbuhN87mQaKcFNKrJ2uzs 8b8I4zr7m4UpXQ3mZOu+Zf/8R2eBZaPfe3wm0cXbdN6FQBCRFD/2MGgWDbuvbxp6o2FShny7r y1nkCc3Kr6XJfaZY3FOBNfo1XLQeBsIsGk3v68dO6zBqySVDNE9kLS0je8k2vNNxTJ9Rqrenm T9+nXWcwUIXwSA+Ns8uMHNQsB0LT2S6tI65k42sm+T5YNCI2Ja6BauSHAJ26L11CtsuhPd4du slh0o7oOZmj+i5j0sMozUGfu4mt91T2CIgCpyC74yKImacS/pXUM8KSnf8CEPdGb+n25m0yP X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 212.227.15.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:196526 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > If we want to do that, we need to rewrite both the ELisp manual and > the doc string to never use these. With the current text of the > manual, you simply cannot ignore them. (Personally, I think trying to > stop using them is futile, since so many people who actively use > 'pcase' use these terms freely in their messages and other text they > write. But that's me.) The terms are useful when explaining the semantics of ``'. Using the terms all the time can be confusing, however, because these terms are completely unrelated to the semantics of other pcase pattern types. > > If there are still examples like > > > > > (pcase value > > > (`1 (message "Matched a 1")) > > > (`2 (message "Matched a 2")) > > > (`"Hello" (message "Matched the string Hello"))) > > > > in the info manual, they should be changed to not use backquote. > > There are quite a few of these there. Yip, I think they should be changed, for the same reason we prefer using a simple quote over using backquote in Lisp when there is no unquoting involved. (And it looks unnecessarily weird...) When pcase had been invented, it was more or less destructuring with tests. Now, the thing has developed, and ` does not play such an central role anymore (though it's still important) because we found out that it is much more useful for matching non-list values than we had expected (with "we" I mean Stefan, and that's just my version of the story). Michael.