From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What improvements would be truly useful? Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2018 10:56:00 +0000 Message-ID: <87woyl8qm7.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <87inaiss6l.fsf@web.de> <6FCF6ACA-4F29-4B6B-BE9D-D7130C6E9495@gnu.org> <87fu5moe4c.fsf@web.de> <877eqyocro.fsf@web.de> <83zi3uz4nb.fsf@gnu.org> <0b1dd3fa-e0b0-ed20-a256-dd92d1c1826f@dancol.org> <8bc3c4c7-dfc7-987a-95e7-bd309e2326c6@cs.ucla.edu> <03118DC0-39DA-4AB5-980E-A33809B9A5EE@raeburn.org> <83sh9es8jw.fsf@gnu.org> <2cdaa88f-f31e-e05c-a940-d83e25c9c167@dancol.org> <87muzlt1mr.fsf@mbork.pl> <83k1upq70l.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1520594620 15563 195.159.176.226 (9 Mar 2018 11:23:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2018 11:23:40 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.91 (gnu/linux) Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, raeburn@raeburn.org, dancol@dancol.org, rostislav.svoboda@gmail.com To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Mar 09 12:23:35 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1euG7Z-0003x8-JV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 09 Mar 2018 12:23:33 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44564 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1euG9c-0000KI-Du for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 09 Mar 2018 06:25:40 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47504) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1euG7N-0007WK-Ex for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Mar 2018 06:23:22 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1euG7M-0001gM-Cg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Mar 2018 06:23:21 -0500 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([78.129.138.110]:38921) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1euG7H-0001UV-6w; Fri, 09 Mar 2018 06:23:15 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID :Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=J2l6hlaMPmc51msd87pzLgOedl52N1pRCzejV5t/wyE=; b=CDcwpSm4TQEvAtokPqCg9RHaL ymz+tHNEAPE5VtRa7lZj8fyywqlTgRYK5B6qFN9Y9QIf3bwM71dY4Syv+sZCHOwIu8ywCtpB/hLT1 YputeOMkiuwsPvMfURyD/lczFOlEsfP3W2w0KB43hL9DnYRJuIC19u3sHiJE9vWsngcME9vTv8Uoz m3aG7x+Uuya8xXcNFuVkoLa0XvhmWDDniMAXZ6EuczMhRWG7eFMqmZUyY1MFEORdH0SY21vdN/gO8 su4aQUi1iATDvVGqWxGkPXzGdWgSNAFoXCkfuTss10DMJt3xw4wcCgOcHkC8iny2eEXB4LSmPBJp1 Nkhs3gCSw==; Original-Received: from janus-nat-128-240-225-124.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.225.124]:39160 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89_1) (envelope-from ) id 1euG6Y-0038wk-44; Fri, 09 Mar 2018 11:22:30 +0000 In-Reply-To: <83k1upq70l.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 06 Mar 2018 22:32:58 +0200") X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 78.129.138.110 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:223536 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Marcin Borkowski Cc: Daniel Colascione >> , eggert@cs.ucla.edu, eliz@gnu.org, >> raeburn@raeburn.org, rostislav.svoboda@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2018 21:01:00 +0100 >> >> > I want to do my word processing in Emacs, >> >> You already can. Quite a few people do this, using Org-mode or AUCTeX. > > Are you saying that either of these is a WYSIWYG word processor? No. But, then Word or LibreOffice are not WYSIWYG either. Both have extensive modal views of the underlying document (web layout, reading mode, outline view). Org-mode is essentially a structure first view of text. AUCTeX with preview-latex is roughly the same thing. So, both of them have strong aspects of modern word-processor. If Emacs were able to turn org-mode into HTML, render that HTML and then make changes to the text of that HTML, then you'd have something close to the modal views. Or something like preview-latex which uses syntax highlighting to provide the WYS aspect but allows you to turn it on and off. How easy this would be to implement, I do not know. Emacs does not have an MVC architecture -- text properties (i.e. visualization) are stored directly with the contents of a buffer, so switching views is clunky or difficult (see my own lentic.el for an example). Phil