From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Philip K." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs default key bindings [was: Opening Up More Keymaps Re: Standardizing more key bindings?] Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2020 21:21:27 +0200 Message-ID: <87wo08ph6w.fsf@posteo.net> References: <364afb35-1cf9-4bd8-a34d-370dc428f950@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="20666"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel , Thibaut Verron , "T.V Raman" To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 02 21:22:29 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kOQdQ-0005DU-SD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 02 Oct 2020 21:22:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48862 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kOQdP-0002m6-UN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 02 Oct 2020 15:22:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36052) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kOQca-00026p-7a for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Oct 2020 15:21:36 -0400 Original-Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:36115) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kOQcX-0006pH-UI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Oct 2020 15:21:35 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 970E42400FE for ; Fri, 2 Oct 2020 21:21:28 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1601666488; bh=Hhuv8xnNBX/1eTVmqsUDb0z94DEcAnErO1Q2XfI+CQg=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:From; b=Y+6KEV/46RwlwLRosbXYGYT0QyNsvdCCEPkdJ3edzPqqpSztoZZam6znvHMijZeq/ 4E+4z6kxvAULy4Oezj92xY2Cs2iLAdq/6hgwwxYgzd3bkZpcDVzHDdTsFlMLljb9g/ dH4g3D39qY4hr1RZ+bkXBgJfqrzXtbcDwYEVUgfyzRI03sL/KF9ioBD42E/wAxjnPL UCSNqtQ7AkQhwFC0imqz+/sruzY0G28CbEheQuwelcsnMs6v6uIw9usJfu6Up0YPoO 058y/sWrwCKMnnm0C5w1kiWWqyJTdafbdJSnsRI1eDOkkqYgiLGW5Ua7maBhghybsY 3UYrR8/oyi37A== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4C30Gc0DcZz9rxM; Fri, 2 Oct 2020 21:21:28 +0200 (CEST) Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mDMEXmoX2BYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdA/YuGV2Dy6UZtMk+KfA7Nnlj38k22KQ/+sXVa2ttGaHm0O1Bo aWxpcCBLLiAoZ2VuZXJhdGVkIGJ5IGF1dG9jcnlwdC5lbCkgPHBoaWxpcEB3YXJwbWFpbC5uZXQ+ iJAEExYIADgWIQSx6XCgW+bhLMR4DmPClWiPoyRe6AUCXmoX2AIbAwULCQgHAgYVCgkICwIEFgID AQIeAQIXgAAKCRDClWiPoyRe6IDNAP0eOlYoYIGVcCinuewkEb762T6lqA2hIHcNeRyX8LyQ8gEA krv4pIlZNLF+nBvaCtKvCPZF9428X50CvNvRHCNqgwe4OAReahfYEgorBgEEAZdVAQUBAQdACM09 XXce+t9YpOLbLdESh5g4RTY/0Zys7U1FapIZLA4DAQgHiHgEGBYIACAWIQSx6XCgW+bhLMR4DmPC lWiPoyRe6AUCXmoX2AIbDAAKCRDClWiPoyRe6LYcAQDn15KGn/E9MqloWN4mBJ7/tepYIk2IxrkZ imC531HsIAD+LKQYjorQosVe1oym0VZjmgKsem1kJZHG2tY601I+QwM= In-Reply-To: <364afb35-1cf9-4bd8-a34d-370dc428f950@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 2 Oct 2020 11:14:48 -0700 (PDT)") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/02 15:21:29 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256964 Archived-At: Drew Adams writes: > 3. There's been a tendency recently to give Emacs > even more default key bindings. Two cases come > to mind, both in 2020: > > a. `C-x p' was taken by Emacs as a prefix key for > `project.el' commands. > b. `C-x t' was taken by Emacs as a prefix key for > `tabbar.el' commands. > > Maybe those deserve prefix keys (?). But you see > the tendency - less and less for users; more taken > by default bindings. > > That's 2 excellent prefix keys just removed, in > effect, from the user/3rd-party space. Poof! I get that they were in effect removed from the 3rd-party space, but the user is still the final arbiter in what is bound or not. Do you really loose anything, if you rebind C-x p, if you don't use project.el? Same goes for C-x t if you don't use tabs. My point is that there seem to be varying degrees of importance to key-bindings: Rebinding C-c, let alone a self-insert key is far more disruptive than M-/, C-o, C-x, C-x a, etc. -- it's just difficult to draw the line. -- Philip K.