From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Karl Fogel Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why does Gnus article-moving act like a fetch of new news? Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2021 23:58:32 -0500 Message-ID: <87wnta91mv.fsf@red-bean.com> References: <87lf9rruzl.fsf@red-bean.com> <874kgekcd3.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Reply-To: Karl Fogel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="15247"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Emacs Development To: Eric Abrahamsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Apr 10 06:59:21 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lV5iL-0003rM-8r for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 06:59:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40830 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lV5iK-0004oE-Bm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 00:59:20 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60266) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lV5hf-0004PI-Or for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 00:58:40 -0400 Original-Received: from sanpietro.red-bean.com ([45.79.25.59]:45904) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lV5ha-0007lR-Ia for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 00:58:38 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=red-bean.com; s=202005newsp; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date:Reply-To:References:Subject:Cc:To: From:Sender:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=ffMkiT507S/+0oAln8BMji6zpT9doJAC10O83IqHY5c=; t=1618030713; x=1619240313; b=gW0IjJed7uZnSvT5EtgG+DsNuzxmcVE25ir54jMuca5DYf7MmoYGEzqyu6uLMpLEno6YK4M3FA lBw4sTpy8X420WPvO+Qfo3JOJWntT+s2A8OHDzEDrGMdq1MnpWPPc3ghJaChcHVX15n4qWbrhhpa9 iEdvkna5HjPDP6pnO+HrtCfuBK0JjWeZjMMvPPOue6zRsNdS8cOKA5wL4fl9dnS75UyybewTzwF0c fHLgD2ToQYS7e/u/oJk7MPv3ROV0RR24F9QDKYjJy4bvRndcZCbYcI3VEtggwdo/Nsx7K0prgXrWO wNT0su3ezwOrXgU+9bIncgbrgGR99PTBftP3Q==; Original-Received: from 99-112-125-163.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net ([99.112.125.163]:36706 helo=floss) by sanpietro.red-bean.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lV5hY-0003Ik-Po; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 04:58:32 +0000 In-Reply-To: <874kgekcd3.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> (Eric Abrahamsen's message of "Fri, 09 Apr 2021 21:11:20 -0700") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=45.79.25.59; envelope-from=kfogel@red-bean.com; helo=sanpietro.red-bean.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:267769 Archived-At: On 09 Apr 2021, Eric Abrahamsen wrote: > I think an argument could be made that if the DONT-SCAN optional=20 > argument is non-nil, we should also skip running the two=20 > get-new-news hooks. But let's see what Lars says.=20 You mean the second argument to=20 `gnus-group-get-new-news-this-group'? The doc string is somewhat confusing on that argument: | gnus-group-get-new-news-this-group is an interactive compiled=20 | Lisp function in =E2=80=98gnus-group.el=E2=80=99. | |=20 (gnus-group-get-new-news-this-group &optional N DONT-SCAN) | |=20 Check for newly arrived news in the current group (and the N-1=20 next groups). | The difference between N and the number of=20 newsgroup checked is returned. | If N is negative, this group=20 and the N-1 previous groups will be checked. | If DONT-SCAN is=20 non-nil, scan non-activated groups as well.=20 In other words, the meaning of "DONT-SCAN" seems to be: scan! One=20 can see how a person might be confused by this :-). According to the "Terminology" section in the Gnus manual,=20 "activating" a group means this: | The act of asking the server for info on a group and computing=20 the | number of unread articles is called =E2=80=9Cactivating the=20 group=E2=80=9D. | Un-activated groups are listed with =E2=80=98*=E2=80= =99 in the group=20 buffer.=20 Thus I don't understand why moving an article to a group should=20 unconditionally "activate" that group in the first place. I can=20 see how moving an *unread* article to a group might activate that=20 group? But the code in `gnus-summary-move-article' doesn't have=20 such a conditional. And even if we leave aside the question of why we unconditionally=20 activate the destination group, it's still not clear why=20 activating a group should imply getting new news for that group.=20 Or, to put it another way: why is the way to activate a group to=20 get new news for it? These just seem like two very different=20 things. I realize you may not know the answers either, and that we may=20 need Lars or someone with a similar level of knowledge. I'm just=20 trying to line up some useful questions. Gnus is a very, very=20 complex code base, I have learned through several dives in its=20 coastal waters. Best regards, -Karl