From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Stepping Back: A Wealth Of Completion systems Re: [ELPA] New package: vertico Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2021 14:24:23 +0200 Message-ID: <87wnt957rc.fsf@posteo.net> References: <9c9af088-580f-9fb1-4d79-237a74ce605c@inventati.org> <874kgkxxs0.fsf@posteo.net> <78741fe6-2612-d7c9-2bc4-0b68ea7fa51a@yandex.ru> <76a4d0e2-117b-165d-d56e-5bc2f504b50c@yandex.ru> <87blapln0r.fsf@posteo.net> <37bd2e96-ce04-eb6d-24da-fdd7ea427e61@yandex.ru> <87im4wx2ct.fsf@posteo.net> <83ft0080hi.fsf@gnu.org> <16784f40-b959-9a84-65d4-93b71d1bebec@yandex.ru> <837dla7ghj.fsf@gnu.org> <83lf9q5r7k.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="7135"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , dgutov@yandex.ru, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 11 14:41:31 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lVZP9-0001ir-7e for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 14:41:31 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36946 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lVZP8-00043r-6z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 08:41:30 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49442) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lVZ8g-0003WD-BG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 08:24:30 -0400 Original-Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:33531) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lVZ8e-00017x-II for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 08:24:30 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 38CA92400FD for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 14:24:25 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1618143865; bh=ln0vlgkYgcP+7J9QshP1wvh4p5riZYTHZf/cREr4myA=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=kWD3IZOCMr8a87M5QZT0mdfA4BOiT0FgcNTcvpi2P8IhynQSpuhzCoI/MX4bXqmfC 4y3D/h/AGZlgLKIjAQJXkySt3q/KfKVqN2gukOdjzng4jtTXwF4jcf8wfBjJ+CJg1V 08Q5SJC5D0gMZ7YQHmXI3alvFyw+kIBz4S7J3jI6NoJ4hRyykPf7SgXf0Hh9oeCGAZ rrB0LWwnqg5rqc8hyfDG8f3g7y60JpexgPHX/aAOsT3EL1hA85ua1lf+T2JaKBragJ x4vC04tJf6tQEg1nqFHHH5YnPf0rAhVQ4zAmltfrnhA0o3oWaCXN9UfMO2QWQKDeMg iIa0ffL6EvtMw== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4FJ9zC63Cfz9rxH; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 14:24:23 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Sun, 11 Apr 2021 06:37:08 -0500") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:267868 Archived-At: Stefan Kangas writes: > Eli Zaretskii writes: > >>> > Right away, i.e. even without the user typing anything? that'd produce >>> > a huge list of candidates, which would be impractical to display. >>> This is what e.g. ivy does on M-x, and it works well in practice. >>> >>> I find it much better to display candidates this way, and I think it >>> would be a step forward if Emacs dit this itself OOTB. >> >> For me, it would be a step back. I never use completion for >> discovery, I always have a pretty good idea what I'm about to type >> when I do. > > The fact that this UI paradigm is so ubiquitous suggests that you might > be in the minority here. I don't think that that should delegitimize the preference though. >>> (It's also a popular choice elsewhere, try for example entering >>> something into the search bar on Google or DuckDuckGo. The same >>> paradigm you see there is used in a lot of desktop software.) >> >> Those are for selection, not for completion. I thought we'd already >> established that the two are quite different. We should not conflate >> them, nor force users use only one of them where both could make >> sense, IMO. > > I don't think the distinction matters here. We are discussing if > candidates should be shown eagerly, and my answer is "yes". Are you using an alternative completion framework? I find it interesting how some people agree with the distinction and others don't, and wonder if the way they use Emacs shapes their opinion. -- Philip K.