From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Add Maildir support to RMAIL Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2021 11:26:21 +1000 Message-ID: <87wnpdhm0s.fsf@gmail.com> References: <83h7giwjtb.fsf@gnu.org> <1627225069.25819@bluehome.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28142"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.5.14; emacs 28.0.50 To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 26 04:01:34 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m7pvy-0007Bu-BV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 26 Jul 2021 04:01:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35484 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m7pvw-00084H-R5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 22:01:32 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51414) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m7pv9-0007In-0g for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 22:00:43 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pj1-x102e.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::102e]:37673) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m7pv7-0006CQ-Ap for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 22:00:42 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pj1-x102e.google.com with SMTP id a4-20020a17090aa504b0290176a0d2b67aso9108196pjq.2 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 19:00:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=references:user-agent:from:to:subject:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version; bh=JBrOT04ot6iN2FJcvd7O7cK/a8N8234aMgVphfidnkM=; b=WbF2hzGtTLMyCK8c6rWxtasTE/Ak/0SX5g2wdF3WiTiw8JKdIIAzcMmkh39NI3aD52 oiYxFk2pXUOcAVc0CPEHSxZjYGvy+1xfU+bru/wTfF1Co13dkEN9SPnt1+RWUeV+BIQb rlj2VK6WYTqIhBzImXneyCNwXlAzPElKpcJxWxb5CAuUbB5CFRV3E/YTw+9gGJniITqz RtQ6R1nyamc1v1+2TrW9D5SBvJIzXNjs4DANR8G94tf9k2d1lsINh0usee3RUxcJGhO3 yxiXN7GFDOy70Zs+Sjgt/Qf+L6mNMP81OgrSqbRS15Z16zzdsQU1j/FGlVfhJUp+xR8q xbbw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:references:user-agent:from:to:subject:date :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version; bh=JBrOT04ot6iN2FJcvd7O7cK/a8N8234aMgVphfidnkM=; b=U1wTgFGrZ5/5Jajx6K57gKqhmZSGQgGJ373EQ787xG9EUkbZMv/j2t4AfSfAv2GSjh CaZXDu9l1jLSB/8hue0rJvvvX9RogwVMyonYO/Vl7csP0D8bA3SDm3s8eh3AK4lMM8mD pK8PaRSop4xpjOyqRr6H+QaAGYuu6OQdaG3hjqzCcUbgtimoEHv5rqJIiYw2n0j8QpJ+ F2IpQfUNKG9gLyq/y9BcqBWhYeDx2doNuHbcQDQnRiYowWGWNIqriNUGZeQ6hHUiI0wZ 6NsMb77PDybMGC0okuvZBPoZnK51Cd6T5S7Pu6bn0MxIxErSLpo8MTEgkP0aPI4o2BXT 32bQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532EsQKNypz/eufyFjgyUP9W2hJ5WTRMTMHMgqdx5irXDneDqf30 8gkoYKux3wjcSxlH+bgyuf/TGs87vTA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzsVYm67S2PyyRxUUu+gH4EBpnwatSazIbXrB4VVaeEvjB3mZZeh7qTmVh9eQl9z1EsA34CfA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:158:: with SMTP id em24mr2691464pjb.174.1627264839266; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 19:00:39 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from tim-desktop (106-69-72-81.dyn.iinet.net.au. [106.69.72.81]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y2sm23612432pfe.146.2021.07.25.19.00.37 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 25 Jul 2021 19:00:38 -0700 (PDT) In-reply-to: <1627225069.25819@bluehome.net> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::102e; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-x102e.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:271627 Archived-At: csh writes: > Eli Zaretskii wrote .. >> > From: csh >> > Cc: ane@iki.fi, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> > Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2021 07:18:23 -0700 (PDT) >> > >> > Eli Zaretskii wrote .. >> > > $ movemail --version >> > >> > bash: movemail: command not found... >> >> Then I guess you should install GNU Mailutils. > > I asked you what the package name was. I told you that I cannot find it. > > [liveuser@localhost-live ~]$ dnf search mailutils > Last metadata expiration check: 1:44:35 ago on Sun 25 Jul 2021 09:07:46 AM EDT. > No matches found. > [liveuser@localhost-live ~]$ > >> Btw, I'm not sure I understand completely what kind of Maildir support >> do you need and why. Your original message said: >> >> > I really love the simplicity of reading mail with RMAIL, but most email providers >> no longer use the mbox format for mail. > > My mail is in Maildir format. It is not in mbox format. > >> What do you mean by "email providers", and how do you use that to get >> your email before reading it in Emacs? > > I use bluehome.net, which stores mail in Maildir format, but I am sure Google uses > Maildir format for its inboxes, too. > > Right now, I am using the webmail Webmin interface. Sometimes I use Evolution. Other > times I use Thunderbird. I just used OfflineIMAP to fetch all my mail into ~/Mail/ on > my local machine. I think you have some conceptual confusion regarding how all of this works. How your email provider (e.g. google) stores messages is irrelevant. You retrieve messages from your provider via imap (or possibly pop3), which is a protocol that sits at a higher level than storage - it does not know or care about how the messages are stored. It simply retrieves the message and passes it through to your imap client. In your case, your imap client is OfflineIMAP, which I believe stores the messages using maildir format. There are of course many other similar programs (I use mbsync). There are also a number of other alternatives, using things like procmail, local mail servers, local imap servers and many other options. All that really matters is that the messages are stored in a format that your mail reading client can understand. It has been decades since I used Rmail, but from memory, it used its own internal format for storing messages - it use to be that rmail would read the messages from the traditional mbox format on local system and move them into rmail's preferred format. Other clients did similar - for example, VM. In the past, I use to use fetchmail and procmail to retrieve messages via imap, run them through procmail to filter and sort, write them to mbox files which VM would then read in and store locally in VM's own format. These days, I use mu4e and mbsync. My messages are stored in maildir format and I have the power of 'mu' to search/manipulate them and the ease of mu4e for reading. The nice thing about mu4e is that it uses Emacs' standard message mode for composing messages and Gnus' for displaying/rendering messages (but without the overhead/confusion of a Gnus interface). Another 'simple' mail interface which is quite popular is 'notmuch', which I've not used, but I believe is based on similar principals i.e. small utilities which are combined together with a nice interface wrapper written in Emacs lisp. The only time when you really need to worry about what storage format your email client uses is when it comes to sorting out backups or perhaps fixing data corruption. The maildir architecture became popular because mbox was seen as a bit inefficient and fragile (large files where any corruption would make all messages unavailable) or when using multiple clients. I think it is a bad idea to try and share the same data across clients. I've found that even when a client claims to use maildir format, there can be some subtle differences in implementation which can affect how reliable the storage is. These days, with cheap storage and fast networks, I find it better to setup all clients to have their own local store and just use imap to keep things synchronised. Now I can read messages from numerous different clients on different platforms and everything is 'in sync'.