From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Daniel Brooks Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: character sets as they relate to =?utf-8?B?4oCcUmF34oCd?= string literals for elisp Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2021 10:08:01 -0700 Message-ID: <87wnmrs8lq.fsf@db48x.net> References: <87v92ft9z6.fsf@db48x.net> <87o885tyle.fsf@db48x.net> <83k0it6lu5.fsf@gnu.org> <87k0isu7hz.fsf_-_@db48x.net> <87a6jotszy.fsf@db48x.net> <875yuctout.fsf@db48x.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30559"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 05 20:16:20 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mXozD-0007k0-Mj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 05 Oct 2021 20:16:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41062 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mXozC-0001ra-34 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 05 Oct 2021 14:16:18 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53810) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mXnvK-0002ab-Hm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Oct 2021 13:08:14 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp-out-4.mxes.net ([198.205.123.69]:64456) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mXnvB-0005G0-Bt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Oct 2021 13:08:14 -0400 Original-Received: from Customer-MUA (mua.mxes.net [10.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4HP3tp4bBzz3c9s; Tue, 5 Oct 2021 13:08:02 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mxes.net; s=mta; t=1633453683; bh=EvQUKgKc4iCfDUlLKP0pFqzzRcCNy5PG5FE4dSEZlzo=; h=From:To:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:Message-ID: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=x4Qoqr99Z9tPBpCFmGiKZ5J6Jxr0SXcYl0U2VBEtckZmC+Sbe3WlaB8ODpuoG6C8n JS+KH8VBBCHRVtq8Tg/6q0rwCXDzvSMV6badpk6j34Z17QN2fR2n6ruKVCS2HgNkUe 86e/h4+8154NSiKavr6p6WuaYDI4uCrkaSVtOfIY= Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGOfPtRkwAAABJQ TFRFpKfbdou67PD6JjJgAwUWXGSeIcyLHgAAAkZJREFUOI1VU8Fy6yAMxLi+Q13fCZ3cnQL3dqTc 7RD+/1feStDXVnXHDuvVSivZTMba2GPdw3gyCGcMAFxTyrTd9dwGoxHiZX9PmRFUHYAQlGGtXY+F Uk0SJOxgJiUEnH1qkitT9D+pQub7qGAmUbR6bu3CvI96Yv6QqkBBMrsyfZccr1/RDXGDTLf4P7ZY glVxe2V+/ACXWO1gvDO9/gDRpFFVmPluvLcmBjd5H6d8DEte+Pbk4rcY/Fa5tLKLOtCZsuQKYhpa LOkYDT7hESya7/WIET3lfQBqX0pwFtbI832Is0ayMUR9B+12xjgPCQ089cfwkCkX6L5TPmRelJTh zMS0Sz1PyjLAMCUWjcmgQLWQMds+e3aaauZDf9dU9A2/8kPVF2odCUoMKHkfjJR+mbgC+DRiycw5 3XSqGe6HmhN/AWjHypkAXOAFW5EiuA1ge2GiZuMb0s1fSEXcATeLUfbyEY2L8yPOmdSsdghQXx3K pz2eoeXuYvMCINVFDrCdNfVUp4eJ6cSEbjbgFjBEvonGGTrgv9cHjAc8aVgSAPoxaONbzfwhDIhR at7IIS7fAGiDSwIA9alhhTBzfA7YM2FY6eMwayrIGK8FDFmshmUA43WqhFtpvoqG9HHaJ7fqtgTz 8EWVkgZgtsylFliHDgk0MB7KAEC45C/rgnGvanNLXyzOeTzcT2nw/N44gfrtYXRQLoz9Q3TgmJRx 2Mx/Q51qzpm+l3m8z2SWBqC5+PZXAtNYlGFf/gKfHfjFkDT4x7od7R+w3Ls+ZdQBuQAAAABJRU5E rkJggg== In-Reply-To: (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Tue, 5 Oct 2021 11:20:47 +0000") X-Sent-To: Received-SPF: none client-ip=198.205.123.69; envelope-from=db48x@db48x.net; helo=smtp-out-4.mxes.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:276359 Archived-At: Alan Mackenzie writes: > Hello, Daniel. > > On Mon, Oct 04, 2021 at 15:19:22 -0700, Daniel Brooks wrote: >> But alas, it=E2=80=99s fairly ordinary; I don=E2=80=99t actually have th= e keyboard of my >> dreams. Instead, there are some xkb options that I turn on to make it >> more capable. To type a =EF=BD=A2"=EF=BD=A3 I have to press S-', while t= o type =EF=BD=A2=E2=80=9C=EF=BD=A3 I >> press Level3-k; it=E2=80=99s a different pair of fingers, but not really= any >> more difficult or awkward to type. > > So, you've set up your keyboard specially to be able to type these things > easily. I think we can be sure that a lot of your readers won't have > done the same. I've set up mine to be able to type =C3=A4, =C3=84, =C3= =B6, =C3=96, =C3=BC, =C3=9C, and > =C3=9F. Ah, I think I understand what you are getting at. You are asking why raw strings should use =EF=BD=A2=EF=BD=A3? I=E2=80=99m suggesting that like Rak= u, the elisp parser allow _any_ nonalphanumeric character as a delimiter, and that if that opening delimiter is part of a pair, then the closing delimiter would be the closing character of the pair. So #r=EF=BD=A2foo=EF=BD=A3 would be a ra= w string, but so would #r(foo) or #r[foo] or #r@foo@, or whatever else you wanted to use. The idea is that you would never be required to escape the delimiter, because you can always choose a delimiter that is not part of your string. As long as your keyboard has at least one or two punctuation characters in addition to the usual quotes, then you would be in good shape. Well, I suppose you would also rarely want to use period or comma as the delimiter either; they are likely to show up in the strings you might want to type. But we can be fairly certain that the user at least has parentheses close by. >> I use a GUI precisely because the range of characters is so much wider, >> making the text work more fun. > > OK. If the kernel's console also had the same range of characters, would > you then use that console for text work? I would miss some other features, such as multiple monitor support, but nearly so. >> I can hear the laughter already, as we propose adding a 2 or 3 megabyte >> kernel module. It would be hilarious. Can you imagine it now? > > Actually, if it was an optional feature, I think it would be welcome in > the kernel, although most kernel hackers would probably continue not to > use it. 2 or 3 Mb isn't a large amount of RAM on a desktop machine any > more. Yes, but look at the size of the rest of the kernel on disk. Mine is 11 megabytes :) db48x