From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: sqlite3 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2021 01:09:10 +0100 Message-ID: <87wnke4p21.fsf@gnus.org> References: <87tufmjyai.fsf@gnus.org> <877dcil2sj.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87czm98qi1.fsf@gnu.org> <87o85tcwm0.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <874k7ljwkr.fsf@gnus.org> <87fsr5cuzq.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <878rwx8mdn.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1aphuei.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="33078"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: eric@ericabrahamsen.net, cesar mena , Richard Stallman , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Pip Cet Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 09 01:10:24 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mv70y-0008QX-Oi for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2021 01:10:24 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39756 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mv70x-0005D6-Be for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 08 Dec 2021 19:10:23 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52778) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mv702-0004WD-Nb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Dec 2021 19:09:26 -0500 Original-Received: from [2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2] (port=56924 helo=quimby.gnus.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mv701-0002AH-1a; Wed, 08 Dec 2021 19:09:26 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=QaoAc/KTAP1w/UXQ+4gogsM/an0V1ia+fDe8ItFf+FQ=; b=ZxlwjDMSKGiUnNU7ATJ+Jyci0t ok2jfKqVLlm8E4VVAVRuvC9fm/AJUAT+hXRGdC8KE4KsouRrzqCV8HQHGBaslzjjOu2Lv7eZj66U1 P9Vg4ORwJxLskuieHnTj5NZ9AEE9ZkWA6LSgjCIYuvFfi57Epf8zHMZ2EL+ss7jGj6Zs=; Original-Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mv6zr-00056g-ER; Thu, 09 Dec 2021 01:09:20 +0100 Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAG1BMVEUPERUZHCEdISYo Ki8gHB5FQ0Q+PT8/PTz////fJqpZAAAAAWJLR0QIht6VegAAAAd0SU1FB+UMCQAADDsTzjEAAAGD SURBVDjLlZPRccMgDEDB9gCAO0AiFjDo6LfbbBBP0OsE3f+nSEKGtM1HfZdLoseThJQY8/fjzf+A s8+M5yA+q7EaR2/L1kOLKPLlNphvewfLNl00PjVFBGNUsfXErgZVmFqVub5eegf1QfnMKfdmJD66 qUDzsAxWRyfQGm+ZLrsPcnM5vHl/46/vVoEkQDtx0uni62NGhbswYDtoytaFBqTozHNDjoNexRnr nKvn5kTxoIAUTu1ICAGgzdhFZzjFegR/DRBRdz99sOAxQD0OiLp8F0VIV4ABeCMgrAkegDXTlzSD lKiWUOBW6R5ikrgWt6kB+AyU6AQiEIiZ4zgKK3WERxyACOVO6UvuoAm5cFlRBgEj3ilWPhWoUGN8 +GDgBqHFCgPvTKL5zfmM4WkYV/fAWV4PzdW2ZOcMp1J6V3XTAeRihxaXX/WcaKrklFyGm9+Q58RT Oo4T1G1sbYK9sfPPw2uK0NvVx7axA8YcR8BEwKNxgvwT1HhdFLbefgFtGr8Bms5VsID3rXEAAAAl dEVYdGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjEtMTItMDlUMDA6MDA6MTIrMDA6MDCMKSDsAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRl Om1vZGlmeQAyMDIxLTEyLTA5VDAwOjAwOjEyKzAwOjAw/XSYUAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: The xx's _I See You_: "Dangerous" In-Reply-To: (Pip Cet's message of "Wed, 8 Dec 2021 18:36:24 +0000") X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2; envelope-from=larsi@gnus.org; helo=quimby.gnus.org X-Spam_score_int: -35 X-Spam_score: -3.6 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:281407 Archived-At: Pip Cet writes: > The proposal is to have Emacs store some user data in some binary > format that cannot be readily inspected, diffed, backed up, > version-controlled, shared, altered, or understood. (Or archived, > published, indexed, checksummed, ...) The slope is pretty slippery from .emacs to .newsrc.eld to Gnus registry storage to .sqlite files. The .emacs file with the Customize settings is usually something a user can read and edit and diff with some confidence. The .newsrc.eld file, which is a couple of huge alists with complicated nesting, is very hard to read, edit or diff, even thought it's "text". Putting it in VC is meaningless. The Gnus registry, which is a dumped hash table, can't meaningfully be read or edited by anybody unless that person is an expert on hash table representation and what it all means. And it's not diffable or VC-able without special software. An .sqlite file isn't pretending to be user editable in vi, but there's a plethora of software out there do do all things you'd expect, and (of course) Emacs will come with a mode to inspect and edit these files more free-form. They will, in the end, be a lot more editable than a hash table dump: This mode will allow you to say "delete all values that refer to 'foo' no matter where it's stored in this file", and that's not something that's anybody implemented for all these "text" formats that Emacs uses today. As for archiving, publishing, indexing or checksumming: Doing that with an .sqlite file is a lot more meaningful than a file containing a hash table dump. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no