From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Timothy Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Survey 2022 - design Date: Thu, 19 May 2022 23:30:28 +0800 Message-ID: <87wneha5yn.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87ee0sb3by.fsf@gmail.com> <874k1nrsu6.fsf@bernoul.li> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="39990"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.6.10; emacs 28.0.92 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Jonas Bernoulli Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu May 19 17:46:12 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nriLs-000AHE-NF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 19 May 2022 17:46:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56712 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nriLq-00083g-E9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 19 May 2022 11:46:10 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35358) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nriDw-0005sd-Uw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 May 2022 11:38:01 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pj1-x102a.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::102a]:46789) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nriDt-0008OU-PI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 May 2022 11:38:00 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pj1-x102a.google.com with SMTP id v5-20020a17090a7c0500b001df84fa82f8so5574311pjf.5 for ; Thu, 19 May 2022 08:37:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=01GLvaTW/lFhE0XRm46hJxZBRaQfG/sbzB16M13JG6Q=; b=PJay9S+ICZaQYSnIoPYj5F1CoqH2hUMdNS+xGuEEDDM7BqlnKfzgwLdDuAmkGayl8N DpKno+AmIyrkUjss3D8e/iyCbrpzrwDSm6lca9V43frf/r6bpTM627MtfSPwFxcR3+UU 5p+o+r+pjGc9Fyk3hGu3bBWxLiWMHriE9BF97usPFM5TTh6Ir7ocTUuQowJuDwvdEyQe JPaVzrySb9QfQEoO9ztY329xRstblpFU478NyXCbCz0qbpO0pOWPd4ARJf3/cIUNDsR8 nAE4WTM/G8BcDiZ1KoBCT6s4Moi9mGj93LpsCSE3+5Q0duQ+ZwrVDWBI6juuXLa76d1h oZRA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:date :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=01GLvaTW/lFhE0XRm46hJxZBRaQfG/sbzB16M13JG6Q=; b=NdfhBgjZ/SXjSf4ea9c/Ss42npqoyZmsn0TfuBa+ESN5BOo+gx3RVaJiatdKXr27NS SODePXRllEUgIn/sAf7CHmFGrWZielOhpV8+9hTqriOQoFfhlcLyLW6/UsgtOle59qTs MhD6Sz1flJq4Xcp60IpftB9XbZJWRqXKrjtQbiQpgsnq+WCK2cOrUSwbEGZ6XUX0vNAL +ai/9tEGUpsuSyZrnY9bJXDTAUFNY/u8h5zGv6/xftY+pcAcOYJ+NR2Yj3okFp83g2+1 I6FGAXWlFxvrg6oYG0KW8mTc0jfGHhQ105H9kgBp7+lXByLYvnj5mqnSiTcl1Gr0tKfT DrHA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531C6KIF/37aYF9DArXvorZPt2K4HHdW2rRxMfYMpfpLsSwzwNzF R3rIJnwRU2B6ji3FfBdd+dDnUxAJuMc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzzyupRRDFIj5hFCt5wgNy20he9i97z/apFyLmi4VeokBWOJq86OQJ2cZufBgitn2vrlPo3Eg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:380b:b0:1dc:6d24:76ff with SMTP id mq11-20020a17090b380b00b001dc6d2476ffmr6369630pjb.42.1652974676467; Thu, 19 May 2022 08:37:56 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost (61-245-128-160.3df580.per.nbn.aussiebb.net. [61.245.128.160]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ik16-20020a170902ab1000b0015e8d4eb1e4sm4029802plb.46.2022.05.19.08.37.55 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 19 May 2022 08:37:56 -0700 (PDT) In-reply-to: <874k1nrsu6.fsf@bernoul.li> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::102a; envelope-from=tecosaur@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-x102a.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:289972 Archived-At: Hi Jonas, Jonas Bernoulli writes: >> I=E2=80=99m pushing for a 2022 Emacs survey. > > Always fun. Thanks! I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes :) >> ** How do you manage third-party packages? > > Please include borg (https://github.com/emacscollective/borg). It may > not have many users but then again, it may. Only one way to find out. The "other" boxes are actually text fields in the survey, so people can actually just type "borg" in should they use it :) >> - [ ] Frequently >> - [ ] Rarely >> - [ ] Never > > That's like those scientific studies that only offer four levels of X to > choose from, except here it's only three choices here. What about "All > the time", to get at least to the level of detail, that that Covid study > I took part in, had? Maybe also add "Occasionally" in the middle; the > neutral option that is so often missing? > > [Is anyone aware of a study about whether leaving out a neural option > leads to more polarized results? I.e., is mildly-pro+mildly-contra ~=3D > mildly-pro+neutral+mildly-contra, or are respondents encouraged to > pick the extremes (e.g., because both mild variants are seen as neutral > in the absence of a fully neutral choice)?] This is a very good point, thanks for raising it! How about: Frequently, Often, Sometimes, Rarely, Never ? >> ** Do you have any general feedback on the survey? > > That's it? That wasn't many questions. I'm inclined to be conservative to maximise value/respondent time, but I think there's plenty of room for good suggestions. There's good reason why I called this a draft :) > They would need some work, but here are some I would be interested in: > > - How do you learn about new packages? > - Do you try out new interesting packages immediately, or wait for them > to mature? > - Do you sometimes discover old package and use them instead of newer > alternatives? > - Do you research established alternatives when a new shiny package > comes along? > - Do you install the packages that you maintain yourself using package.el? > (As opposed to manually adding the appropriate directory to the load-pa= th.) > - Do you publish your own packages on an *ELPA as soon as they are > usable, or do let them mature a bit first? (Why the former?) > - How often do you contribute new features to the packages you use? > - How often do you contribute bugfixes to the packages you use? > - How often do you ask the maintainers of the packages you use for help? > - Where do you request help with packages that are part of GNU Emacs? > - Where do you request help with packages that are not part of GNU Emacs? > - If you use a starter-kit, who do you usually ask for help first; the > starter-kit maintainers, the package maintainers, the wider community? > - What do you do if your feature request or contribution is rejected? > - What documentation do you wish package authors would more often > provide? [] Comparison with alternatives [] Tutorials [] Design > rational [] Info manual [] Screenshots [] Videos [] Concise > introduction [] ... [ ] . I'll get a second opinion on this list, but I think a bunch of these questions look like very promising candidates for inclusion. Thanks for your thoughts! Timothy.