From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Org mode and Emacs (was: Convert README.org to plain text README while installing package) Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2022 14:49:21 +1000 Message-ID: <87wndndbhq.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87h74ztshe.fsf@gmx.de> <871qw31ois.fsf@yahoo.com> <8735gj4ceo.fsf@gnu.org> <87ee038ipt.fsf@gmx.de> <87o7z61v59.fsf@gmail.com> <87bkv527p5.fsf@gmail.com> <835yld93w7.fsf@gnu.org> <877d5t0yrn.fsf@gmail.com> <87r140yuof.fsf@gmail.com> <875yl9e7zm.fsf@gmail.com> <83czfh12kp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmjhghu2.fsf@localhost> <835yl910gp.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="40682"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.7.26; emacs 28.1.50 Cc: Ihor Radchenko , rms@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 11 07:19:06 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nztWb-000AKs-PA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 11 Jun 2022 07:19:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46978 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nztWa-0006gX-Hf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 11 Jun 2022 01:19:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38260) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nztVd-0005ld-Bv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Jun 2022 01:18:05 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pj1-x102f.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::102f]:39460) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nztVb-0004oQ-Nc; Sat, 11 Jun 2022 01:18:05 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pj1-x102f.google.com with SMTP id q12-20020a17090a304c00b001e2d4fb0eb4so4073500pjl.4; Fri, 10 Jun 2022 22:18:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version; bh=4zTdYM+o09wBr9fCNbvjGei/HLik5YGOr7JV0yqAUPo=; b=Dn34GlS3nK2tiz7J8Fz42mIpEanGalgd80/yGTONq+f6uVj/9YHTH8NVxh84hNHHwc zOB+Z/AxGR7ZPrrU1AzWiXZDCDStx8u1qh4A+K4Jt6IX7IYxaee4ugcP2yM1jXA8wksC 1ouSG3sqiSX00Fe1qoRqX8ONJpRWXmiY1uekCSYMiHypEM5uWj6tvYhfUHIX1gJSCn3L QbNgpDij7eX9/0thQnJQRdfiYwnPNa3vWwaQo6Y6ghX2aMZl9yp6a25dnmuvGQk9e2FR rFsG9DuBDaC+dqZFWnHFoFSGt6llNzoW5rWAiTIeZdpjArTVCsVoH+aE2cV0Wr1+G89e tv0Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:date :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version; bh=4zTdYM+o09wBr9fCNbvjGei/HLik5YGOr7JV0yqAUPo=; b=D6TFgfcaZ4ahsx0Rpm8Z5DWU3MdYXQCn0X5O6TaEhtLfNLfrTmElu5TQuyYtJ0Bp4k TYeq7jxx2//TlluZmY5mhL568LOulovvWjuHYWCHMJIQRqzuuoLTfqq6rSAamfNWBqg/ YgogHKwOflUI/4iGcUGS9I22QCjjJCrG2hGY2HzM5SvIw3ACERv8863TQ9KHFIsvqtB4 KMHvwBDe1ubElSrEG3D0G+etwqkawLh+839bZOXux0arhzZUqxfGpzYZNbq14rCXDkNC FyDNYpM8DcsNYgAdGLV9teVe/4sQeiqgXEnxtOEOopVYi8dT/vFccZ9douK6JGIzFhTY OXMQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5333CgLb+x2GEoq8N6QVL7zQTlT1438JNH5b7oVFWr3cNexZTGOr A62bPFgRgk58ODmPmWOiYEPFNQVvgvM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxxLKiBV7iarlfsza0B5fhl/vFhQpwTFTgX/CbMCJE1T8CLVh8dk81cufhxhzUzfNohEO43IQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:bb97:b0:1ea:667b:15bd with SMTP id v23-20020a17090abb9700b001ea667b15bdmr3331964pjr.215.1654924681447; Fri, 10 Jun 2022 22:18:01 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from dingbat (2001-44b8-31f2-bb00-358b-7027-65fe-0462.static.ipv6.internode.on.net. [2001:44b8:31f2:bb00:358b:7027:65fe:462]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d5-20020a17090ab30500b001e2f383110bsm2725998pjr.11.2022.06.10.22.17.58 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 10 Jun 2022 22:18:01 -0700 (PDT) In-reply-to: <835yl910gp.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::102f; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-x102f.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:291014 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Ihor Radchenko >> Cc: Tim Cross , rms@gnu.org, >> monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2022 14:20:37 +0800 >> >> Eli Zaretskii writes: >> >> >> I"m also not convinced that org mode would be the right solution for >> >> Emacs documentation. >> > >> > Then why Org's own manual is written in Org instead of Texinfo? >> >> I do not know if Org mode would be a good solution for Emacs >> documentation. However, compared to texinfo, our manual is lacking index >> entries in all the exported versions but texinfo. > > Lack of an index makes for a less useful manual, IME. > > Anyway, is the lack of the index the _only_ missing feature from what > the Org markup provides as compared to Texinfo? Tim's message sounded > like there are many more omissions. My statement is simply waht it says. I am not convinced org mode would be the right solution for Emacs documentation. This is for many reasons, some relating to org, some relating to the fact I'm not convinced there is a need to replace texinfo, especially given that in some areas, I think texinfo is more feature rich and consistent and some relating to the feeling I have that the result is hard to justify given the amount of work it would require. At the end of the day, proposing org mode as a replacement for texinfo feels too much like a solution looking for a problem and one that doesn't appear to have clear enough advantages to justify the work needed to make such a transition, especially given work being done in the texinfo area to improve its support for new formats, like epub. Org mode is a fantastic tool and I use it every day. There are ways org mode could be used to augment the Emacs environment, but I don't think it is an all or nothing situation. I'm also not convinced that embedding org into Emacs more and more is necessarily a good thing. Tighter coupling comes with both pros and cons.