From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ihor Radchenko Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Org mode and Emacs Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 10:15:59 +0800 Message-ID: <87wndmaaow.fsf@localhost> References: <87h74ztshe.fsf@gmx.de> <871qw31ois.fsf@yahoo.com> <8735gj4ceo.fsf@gnu.org> <87ee038ipt.fsf@gmx.de> <87o7z61v59.fsf@gmail.com> <87bkv527p5.fsf@gmail.com> <835yld93w7.fsf@gnu.org> <877d5t0yrn.fsf@gmail.com> <87r140yuof.fsf@gmail.com> <875yl9e7zm.fsf@gmail.com> <87y1y2irhn.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="39999"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Richard Stallman , Tim Cross , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Po Lu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 12 04:16:36 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o0D9Y-000AG9-Dt for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 12 Jun 2022 04:16:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51316 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0D9W-0004x4-RY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 11 Jun 2022 22:16:34 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37920) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0D8O-00049z-C5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Jun 2022 22:15:24 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pg1-x52d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::52d]:43785) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0D8M-0001nm-LS; Sat, 11 Jun 2022 22:15:24 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pg1-x52d.google.com with SMTP id s135so2613441pgs.10; Sat, 11 Jun 2022 19:15:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :mime-version; bh=FPJGiNlqFX0y+b0+fx8liu9FBLKVGGf1Jkt1ULB1miQ=; b=edWNNTJlzmnLKPLQpSz4OCQoBUl1t6iuTCZaZBeIR4KK2NmGJbQYQduknUW6u6u8xP H+/3C+8YyFckdrX8hSETGl8GNGmHr8lJtGadowQevt3w8Vb2dlYDO4EbIA8wzHmLlB9z C93od9iqVOZqfzp2NGydZS2Z+R2uSH6Pmx/KwxcdR/pcXizMHWrBuhgoHQ5JHVIiQleU fe9gZlP8JNOWPVq8OBNG+bZ45S3mY64SbMnr2ry4LCRqwVOXJEW3mDK7Jo2q71WNHrkU GrdX90hFhF3eQHLgMfeo9V1x8nQZ5BjxYxfb/NtbY2/q6VIeI8ixskMvk3b/hfhKm95a o+yQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:mime-version; bh=FPJGiNlqFX0y+b0+fx8liu9FBLKVGGf1Jkt1ULB1miQ=; b=DJ/6/ltQE38+Pcqb+wKfbVPgELhy0GOeYNDb3T5xn8sUQpzdF1pnND+1aLTiozo1Ry WzMfbYAzNlah6IRhJJqg4hD6vwyOUoUXg/ZxO1usJdIrz+vaWamYdYQqvP9u/YXjP0WJ cFQjpNE++WFhzIKp4VdvnLzmf83jK9DUPYhAFg3xbmJBblBUqsLUampsPATOI/XDkhdK ynT69dy9cnY9iedI25Y7SrjAQM02kl6wqFTD4ERNB2InmcMiTrEe1q2oVVcNbpTw4LO+ jD/Pe4FKCNO/xxf58Rc4eHMiS3W/A8K1OoO/Ij2haXbp2mZghgCmP/RrpxeSwnsWha+X yi0w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532gQbcrBeE7Y+GibZ1nbG2icLCEFPygO1qgvA/xJtVJBceJBxVP 4RvbsVJ41QxMl05qNOaCjKE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz67rOjX3w7z3nkqLh8GzTB19MDZQW29Rf1478EKD8gFMQOu6kxX0Zub/p2Kn9uKA/FnYpxoA== X-Received: by 2002:a63:2154:0:b0:3fe:2814:bd74 with SMTP id s20-20020a632154000000b003fe2814bd74mr20198095pgm.148.1655000120813; Sat, 11 Jun 2022 19:15:20 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost ([64.32.23.62]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p4-20020a170902780400b0015edc07dcf3sm2185693pll.21.2022.06.11.19.15.19 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 11 Jun 2022 19:15:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87y1y2irhn.fsf@yahoo.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::52d; envelope-from=yantar92@gmail.com; helo=mail-pg1-x52d.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:291053 Archived-At: Po Lu writes: > IIRC it's also much slower to create similarly sized .info files from > Org source than it is with makeinfo Could you please quantify much slower? Do you have concrete example of a .org file which can demonstrate the problem? Also, I think that I have to clarify about texinfo export from Org. Org does not currently generate .info files directly. .org file is first transformed into .texi and then uses makeinfo to translate the generated .texi into .info. If there is an interest in Org being used instead of texinfo, it should be based on the extensibility of Org rather than just making Org replicate what texinfo does. However, I am not sure if all parties in this discussion have a clear idea about concrete advantages of Org compared with texinfo. I am not faimiliar with texinfo. Others may not be as faimilar with Org. I believe that if we want to be serious about using Org for documentation more widely, we should first identify which particular aspects of Org are beneficial for documentation and which particular aspects are available in other documentation generators and must be then provided by Org (if not yet available). > ... , and it also requires an entire > manual to be contained in a single file. This is not true. Org mode supports #+include: directives to incorporate multiple smaller files into one larger file. > Texinfo also comes with the added benefit of not requiring Emacs to edit > or to translate into other formats. You can edit Org files outside Emacs. Say, in vim. The point about exporting to other formats is valid. This last point also raises a question. Can Elisp interpreter and libraries be factored out of Emacs to create a way to execute Elisp programs without installing all the interactive parts of Emacs? Best, Ihor