From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: contributing to Emacs Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2023 18:33:43 +0200 Message-ID: <87wmzy5b6k.fsf@web.de> References: <83v8fnslfz.fsf@gnu.org> <96766e99bf2618cc4290498933c6e32bc2a0f98a.camel@yandex.ru> <83o7ldpcs8.fsf@gnu.org> <3c64fe534fee45ff75c9e2c3cece8e2ee146091e.camel@yandex.ru> <87bkhdnl94.fsf@posteo.net> <183ae6c17b4d07701e76003dc72c25d8d2705611.camel@yandex.ru> <87pm5t7yu4.fsf@yahoo.com> <339b006829e123a3f6eeaffbd66f557ea837fdcd.camel@yandex.ru> <87y1kgdax7.fsf@web.de> <83o7lc91kh.fsf@gnu.org> <87leggd2cu.fsf@web.de> <83ilbk8u1k.fsf@gnu.org> <448f75fb368e4ae61dd8bd7899047602a806228a.camel@yandex.ru> <83h6r48a02.fsf@gnu.org> <83mt0v70d3.fsf@gnu.org> <03bef840fc28d46a2ffbf9c94c18a3cbf96de08f.camel@yandex.ru> <83cz1q75do.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="24277"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.10.2; emacs 29.0.90 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , dsmasterson@gmail.com, ams@gnu.org, luangruo@yahoo.com, philipk@posteo.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Konstantin Kharlamov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jun 20 18:52:48 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qBeb2-00067i-ED for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 20 Jun 2023 18:52:48 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qBeaP-0005h5-AD; Tue, 20 Jun 2023 12:52:09 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qBeaM-0005R4-PD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Jun 2023 12:52:06 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.web.de ([217.72.192.78]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qBeaK-0005La-Qv; Tue, 20 Jun 2023 12:52:06 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=s29768273; t=1687279914; x=1687884714; i=arne_bab@web.de; bh=1GhjGA7piGZ8VQ3pFzx7MXeH7T5X1kjkEeCVL+WjbhY=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:References:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-reply-to; b=ZY5aidtzK9frzFsvU7tMdEEc9lUYc00V0Oom8+pB9wBtytzIp0raUJy38SG3ndj5bBwS88p 4zxht/rDMA0aZmiVCCXksThbk/2jLQOV+l43WNbfiaY2CwVUJSyv6DYMvgspUFe73a16HlkLM 92HnGsoiBC9WUwJ3gtkIO9+XJjUhNP2Z56Y6BpEOGiYcF5p0tjVDkZSqms3AKjqaXsQ/AB0W8 X73VXif7qYXGSm3g15zHWYWQzbju22zveY2ZsOJSQqhc5rSYiZW32urgmRp4CqobxzoxgsGDS S+2MhQPKUPsfaWw/WNBLVAPsSp1n9POJOcThX3jAKqXoEXpCMXnw== X-UI-Sender-Class: 814a7b36-bfc1-4dae-8640-3722d8ec6cd6 Original-Received: from fluss ([84.165.25.222]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb106 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N2jaQ-1q5yis0h9I-0138Wh; Tue, 20 Jun 2023 18:51:54 +0200 In-reply-to: X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:bpERu3fGjZ4oYgJ08jOSjO/2j1ipogKcYCmxlnJts1yiKZepOPj wQMjrxxadCI4yClLpFE6Alw8YCzXAxsU9+LoC+XYESo2ODIqFNRTuYt7L0aQC/waQKaMG8g YAlLUjcb3bH0FMLb1W7pZoFSlmD0VA4HOGDIv1lsttSHthU/VMiF7J5L/zDtbNeQaiB8e/k pIwixjpikpNPMaOcCj4/Q== UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:i9L4wvXOJss=;9dgBK7OF97jPMLeTws311wLbMkI i3oTxF8TZruFXYVchuIeGQVd43t4eLITucZsqtnXWIT1cM9UvHJAO1EwU3JcwUXte1ZhRNsIM zZQg02dn8EcC/18guib0hlDgHSIMY4yLIuB+PyfuN6YGyqv/lUHZ5jne2yoXSc1OMbt2aRTL6 ccIu+W58860UrVAOGIld4GX3beDBiDOEqOxvU0cx+UuLZkEzGYvzChd3AE8FjtbwRN+ZrswqM wgVC2UxyZCN/ZIIR83KEAkcUhp+XK9CjjXK33/AW0dQgM3J5ZOd7KEVJJHAkJkbCRRKB3TDuA qgDspcFTdtGL/0RYcLilmNkuF9PMvUE2Oikd2i5oXAhk6jsj08qgrYPpGJj2SoZIMj17jQNjN AOU3E0cM1oXjsf5Lx2oMP8mU0LMnLGRl+FjoEMxJQK2ga3lC+I929eMDBlp+euAghEJCE3KTh isBRRW7S+Rp4TIBqFwmmImpCL/Uqr3jEXQ1uwRUh0jzPanivjyRfj3O1yhkvqaRMyjRWMI86n r8dhpL01oSvY1Sr87vVwpUfva6IVAPW1zFh1ZjyERQQMUEpxUZLk4JmDNNq653PFj8PuJFjzc Jv2/HfRvF8JXbMgOnMDLkG46aWjM45HUMhUEe6vgmGYZi0HYAiKFn8Ovt/i5Jsn2ac7AFvFfH 5VUXp7mAeJfFsKvU7GD4tVjUDNmIs0Amr7m8GA4nA24vQA3jf+FNcUO+HBnKnHKWDfLI8cq0b gsoXRd/fvB2UY/KHo5C6KvOBJgK8ztUhUvWiSDUQEmuMv8cD3hW0zVPXooV2ANP7a4nuD9JF Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.72.192.78; envelope-from=arne_bab@web.de; helo=mout.web.de X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:307095 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Konstantin Kharlamov writes: > On Tue, 2023-06-20 at 14:14 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> I'd appreciate if this seasonal "what's wrong with Emacs >> contributions" discussion would either switch to discussing some >> innovative and useful ideas for how to make it easier for >> contributors, or just died if there are no such ideas yet. >> Reiterating the same claims and the same arguments doesn't sound like >> a good use of our time and bandwidth. > > To my knowledge, I didn't "reiterate same claims", but was answering your > reasoning about not wanting to change the docs, and your reasoning didn't= seem > to have been recursive so far. And it is pointless to suggest new ideas i= f we > didn't even finish discussing old ones. Maybe this was to both your arguments and my arguments which are similar, though our proposed solutions differ. I decided to stop pushing that point, because I realized that while I know that part of my experience is fixing broken information flows (so I actually think that I am right in this), it will not be a good use of my or Eli's time if I keep pushing there but it gets rejected in the end anyway. Best wishes, Arne =2D-=20 Unpolitisch sein hei=C3=9Ft politisch sein, ohne es zu merken. draketo.de --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQJEBAEBCAAuFiEE801qEjXQSQPNItXAE++NRSQDw+sFAmSR2SQQHGFybmVfYmFi QHdlYi5kZQAKCRAT741FJAPD63b9D/4j35QAb0UgGwMbbdY9Zcs6T9SqLInfgHfq 8WfE9k2me6FsY/NcDzKvaLzSBWNyTuP6DYw4YvRcfYI7S4vlvW4eRB7CMnafoNO1 sxKM9GTrQKGlMNAQBUvqjgDhkUOa0hcDMaHvNO035BUKJ+ilp7z6DuT4iVBr0/4O T7XJtNN1zzo6S7X1fRxpNeywUz/v4zTA+uWMFUwqwsRTQL24UmfsSTp3+XSeBcx+ JY5K9C+rNoih4SCwaSPwq0B6Uvh0Td65+II7Dowvz+TMNHb/j4e7zgmL7VtSWNuw m/3CriQvYPzzPQjWsJGG664flqjhund3ule7mAQDWbqYYPH9tlLP447UHrhOQQEP st627ANd9d80zF5KJJDQJF+2+hUqDiKC60T7c2pPAlLMY8jbTzp5N/0T0ov7akTt Z+aiuBvBiGL813Jhd2VNhUYynMrQEqxWdCwXk2m7B4u3SprBEANhfkFEJ8HJpx+g 3SMmfCm52Gfxb4hUfQiiaxCH1uhditHIxLbxVNwm/mE7qXC7/g7x3CgspRZvO5ld kjbJWP/wHgU8rUS8/VsEHtqFFHbprbcFxCam655iZj0Hqq700HfO4+y1SWfoCzJa I1mhsMh/lTIWMDvm5k79SFIZeL4DQLGTSYAjKk/ul2n+Dew+9cR8RgmchFd4c1lP m8B16+5yw4jEBAEBCAAuFiEE3Si95tmHXKvOSosd3M8NswvBBUgFAmSR2SQQHGFy bmVfYmFiQHdlYi5kZQAKCRDczw2zC8EFSLeRA/0dSTU1WQVS1mvGf70i5i+I4sz4 mxyBXbjp4qrMEM2D7jMaP1YZKNvL9yvOCwsnvIF0zKPy21hwI7S1Dxe9SkBkB5e0 FtcfPwp4vaJesmGI0VlMWW+Br71GuxGGk8Quzo+ZJul8e4Ya3OTVT5H//msCOb9T /s3lC9EM+5jq5G5afg== =0pai -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--