From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Colin Baxter Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Should native compilation be enabled by default? Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2024 12:44:04 +0000 Message-ID: <87wmq3vf57.fsf@yandex.com> References: <86sf19p0hw.fsf@gnu.org> <13305.117729918$1709671403@news.gmane.org> <87y1aku44q.fsf@dataswamp.org> Reply-To: m43cap@yandex.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="16272"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (gnu/linux) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Mar 15 13:44:49 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rl6vV-0003yq-JN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2024 13:44:45 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rl6v5-0001K6-Ai; Fri, 15 Mar 2024 08:44:19 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rl6v3-0001Jp-Jv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2024 08:44:17 -0400 Original-Received: from forward502a.mail.yandex.net ([178.154.239.82]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rl6uz-0000yO-On for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 15 Mar 2024 08:44:17 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-nwsmtp-smtp-production-main-64.vla.yp-c.yandex.net (mail-nwsmtp-smtp-production-main-64.vla.yp-c.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:c1f:169b:0:640:faad:0]) by forward502a.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTPS id 6EC5B60A8B for ; Fri, 15 Mar 2024 15:44:06 +0300 (MSK) Original-Received: by mail-nwsmtp-smtp-production-main-64.vla.yp-c.yandex.net (smtp/Yandex) with ESMTPSA id 4ios0qeZrmI0-wgQr7Gts; Fri, 15 Mar 2024 15:44:05 +0300 X-Yandex-Fwd: 1 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.com; s=mail; t=1710506646; bh=VlnfSiQw88gC+OcB02gkU6U+EtR9Poc0xesfXu6XQrY=; h=Message-ID:References:Date:In-Reply-To:Reply-To:To:Subject:From; b=YQhBGvrlrzgFpFp2SJCsJDm/RGPaRlqQjtynjIN5ZHLl19Jt5Do8GUKjYFS2Hqt0D M0Fdl2KjuKxf7LeT1u5Navzk+HGXsRuhaYJEzq3tJnNkCHjbVoYlaRNBcKqG0vZkNr xS6hdK01eOL+3zcwOVndpgqZiu1FjhpO/MVZmZfE= Authentication-Results: mail-nwsmtp-smtp-production-main-64.vla.yp-c.yandex.net; dkim=pass header.i=@yandex.com In-Reply-To: <87y1aku44q.fsf@dataswamp.org> (Emanuel Berg's message of "Thu, 14 Mar 2024 18:15:01 +0100") X-Face: BHjiJOg/Qmj'BQgsAKL@])L)e62P)C"Y=6T Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAEkAAAATAgMAAAChCMjeAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAACVBMVEX/zAABCWP///8I RHjYAAAAAWJLR0QCZgt8ZAAAAAlwSFlzAAALEwAACxMBAJqcGAAAAAd0SU1FB+UFEAk5BvqS634A AAAbSURBVBjTY2BgCA1hYA0FAxDDgQEERsXoIAYA2F9Eb3cpB+AAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRl ADIwMjEtMDUtMTZUMTA6NTY6MTcrMDE6MDCh/kkpAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOm1vZGlmeQAyMDIxLTA1 LTE2VDA5OjU3OjA2KzAxOjAwTyZ6HwAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== Received-SPF: pass client-ip=178.154.239.82; envelope-from=m43cap@yandex.com; helo=forward502a.mail.yandex.net X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:317063 Archived-At: >>>>> Emanuel Berg writes: > Bj=C3=B6=EF=B8=8Frn Bidar wrote: >>> Native compilation is useful mainly for power users who want to >>> run Lisp programs that normally are too slow. There is no sense >>> directing most users into doing things gthe complex way instead >>> of the simple way. >>=20 >> I don't "power user" is the right word here. Most users that >> actively choose native compilation had some kind of use case that >> was to slow e.g. programming with lsp that made use Emacs with >> native compilation but I would say most of them were experienced. > It isn't true that native compilation is only for power users. It > is for everyone that cares for a snappy user experience in their > everyday Emacs use. This is the biggest benefit from native > compilation - it makes Emacs faster all the time, every time you > push a button, almost, so it is not just when the supposed power > users execute some really exotic and advanced Elisp (not sure who > does that at all or anyway, but it sounds cool so let's include > them as well). > Native compilation is very good, even for fast, modern computers > it makes the interactive feel of Emacs much faster, so the whole > Emacs experience feels much more snappy, more responsive and more > plain fun to use. > So to me, the issue is not "should we add it or not", we > absolutely should, it is rather a matter of _how_ to add it so not > to expose the user to a seemingly more complicated install process > or annoying messages. > If we get it to work transparently (invisible) as intended from > the get-go for everyone, it is a no brainer if we should have it > or not. > -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal Compiling emacs with native compilation is not quite as straightforward as one might think. Some people have had issues installing the appropriate libgccjit. See for example https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/rojo7y/emacs_native_compilation_can= not_find_libgccjit/?rdt=3D60542=20 I know that's not strictly an emacs problem, but nevertheless it's a problem that a (linux) user must solve or least know about if they want native compilation. Best wishes,