From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: MPS and pgtk Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2024 20:26:20 +0800 Message-ID: <87wmmatvv7.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <878qyr6ewh.fsf@disroot.org> <86h6df6izq.fsf@gnu.org> <86jziapu1b.fsf@aarsen.me> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="16372"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Ergus , gerd.moellmann@gmail.com, avityazev@disroot.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, eller.helmut@gmail.com To: Arsen =?utf-8?Q?Arsenovi=C4=87?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Jun 27 14:28:16 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sMoEZ-0003zr-E6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 27 Jun 2024 14:28:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sMoDJ-0007kd-LT; Thu, 27 Jun 2024 08:26:58 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sMoDF-0007kO-De for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 27 Jun 2024 08:26:53 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic310-23.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.186.204]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sMoDD-0003gG-I5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 27 Jun 2024 08:26:53 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1719491208; bh=2D/hl9+jmKE5qcEunBHJHWss2f/belPp/nSkNv2YY2o=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=Dzrk/ngJmBjjx3xwbeIEf0YQRK7qpa/z1Xg6l/BEn7szvMtfVEpGvCqS4i6GKYGJ9tnk2sm8YE2SM+0ak5TGW9zPYIqRwbrlOa4QWwg68NW4T5RRbjnuqoWhPzVQxxt6AAAiRXwxatauctKj6veT/dsj5oK3EjvsvtbYkPCVpZff8zULVhRatZHCPnr3eTpRFQsWNzITANqhBJ6IFtom/bW1uD66mU9nEFYAeuqlQTb0fljA8d4eu06Ffp1ZleyYMkHL3x1/MY+ipvD9RjHLo6ouo49bx4bh7d8prAsrs53b76OoAcjim8DvkBXQ7+WXeExmWFzI0BznOYGGinaIPQ== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1719491208; bh=PzxYcwvxiz3npmy1g0hxrtTtQanrlvYuP6j5Wv1cEUn=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=SQ4UY0hNnkl7fLXGVOCrL/VsSjGF4OD850SLm1J6BVfDO1AO3BEuEB1nbeUE8vX8eoeHVPgFqkoURexlVfYOau8j8JJa4E7nA7nVcW7jc+bZrk9B0gNzkz8ej9X/9APl5U1gZap7Q7gf0d12/ViWk7k6jH4EZJi3v2p/CMZXH3QyJb14vCWMLBvIjrhAnphwzfyH81v6WVFeG5QsZbK9oP9s3/B0n3vAToV9sjF6TWbySFODb40niY6MfDC9OKCZnz+rkqTy5sBRMgZXpjievPi5oq1WbigLKKNdz7PGa6GfsFf/pDLiWywpIhBviOSbC8UKyE1ONnF+l5HvFDKFmQ== X-YMail-OSG: FFpoeEcVM1kZvG1J7ncZBUd.Ag.Pp5FhKXSHY8MTa4ESzAM7MBDW7bsOA_n1Emw M5TUMQqAB2OD93rSTS.xV2_BpuXMNKnycJoSWLyqz1bHGBbNBlxgPFLswWe3ZimyX49gtB8qYqdf _4.Tl4LYixl3v6rsIbU5VR1uk.9LQVkyry45NecS799ibtsDR2pHu4shFZ05lEdTInDxbspU_4dH z0ebduhDCZ6_EdJxVUNUExjVPSiViCRjqVJfk9xhzLyYgQkbMiwI0WSsk8ZrZVL7cQdEn7T6laqm htEjIYsvCVxsz2yRAtia3TPf.TciDmBMSxf7nwm0t0ykrfbNQ8CxyP8At37WeMu2nUedy9P52kWZ aHdHuCsfTdQq9vw_5Yb8aYB.M0AXePbfyAcQJanQpEaq6sHmxyRsQhaAmPVdNKrMFlQXi5PrLxWN YKcSBMn_kjygObtTA5Mtm_ghJCIF1pJtMRhTxpAfl.ht0cbHMUt8oMaLDULxAXIT6CfKbmc2xe2Z NWDQ0aBqMKtC_izEeNLqR9UpooBhZYxw3X_sZvyPO04Znh7yaCfbOuMhNOTeqP.BUCtwambjn_Nx PvymfhGYbspiTI1IZjkMg1tx7HNL_LV2NMGQ0fooIN1H5RL6POkX833FSl8XDnus7XLkdFzUH_xE a7MYr_WU1Aiu3XFNRMk2vdUPBTGu.XLaTAydl5iwCVl2jikMIWwpQlQXz1eHUJlRxDQ6KM6_dwl3 fQPRLqr8ciZ5qw7RFk.15Z8xdaU684Mympn11Gvm7y5CGCB6kyDdL4IFioiQyxYVHKuV1hlk0uX4 eOoQk_NLkBBCAOZbxsWDuhMX5zn34Ncg7rFVHnMG0K X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: 9f70625f-05bc-413f-9e4a-08226fc91e29 Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic310.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 27 Jun 2024 12:26:48 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--production-sg3-7b469d9f6-62l4r (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 6276089019fb4040abb66533f7c47b95; Thu, 27 Jun 2024 12:26:42 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <86jziapu1b.fsf@aarsen.me> ("Arsen =?utf-8?Q?Arsenovi=C4=87?= =?utf-8?Q?=22's?= message of "Thu, 27 Jun 2024 12:19:28 +0200") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.22407 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.186.204; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic310-23.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:320765 Archived-At: Arsen Arsenovi=C4=87 writes: > I am curious about what these are, as I am quite interested in the > further development of Wayland. IMO, X has overstayed its welcome, as > it is flawed from the ground up, visibly (to the point where I was quite > surprised the other day when I opened an X session to find noticeable > issues handling mixed refresh rate, and flickering when windows were > changing sizes or opening/closing). At fault is probably your X compositing manager or poor engineering in he client, not the X server, and least of all the extensible X protocol... > I am aware of the GTK issues of not being able to multihead or handle > disconnects, but the only Wayland one I am aware of is lack of a way to > know which frames are visible (which I don't see as a big issue.. and it > is perhaps fixable anyway). If Emacs is to be satisfactory citizen of the Wayland desktop, facilities for moving frames on the virtual desktop and reading their positions are a non-negotiable must. It's really too bad that this is literally anathema to Wayland's designers as one of the putative misdesigns of X they chose to target for eradication. This of all things! Gracefully responding to disconnects, and suchlike, are deficiencies in GTK that will be addressed if and when I determine to commit myself to implementing a Wayland terminal backend independent of all but the Wayland client libraries and protocol definitions, though, needless to say, no tears will be shed if anyone will undertake this now. > WRT GTK, I've considered Qt (but have not seen yet whether it has the > same restrictions) and multiprocessing the UI, but have not had time to > look into those options yet. Has anyone lese considered Qt? Qt is equally incapable of responding to interruptions to display connections, AFAIK.