From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Oliver Scholz Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: HTML as info format (was: terminal escapes in Info files?) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:01:04 +0100 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <87vfps2x9r.fsf@ID-87814.user.dfncis.de> References: <200310280126.h9S1Q9N16202@f7.net> <20031028105102.GA7330@dirtyweb.penguinpowered.com> <20031030104238.GA11503@dirtyweb.penguinpowered.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1068469951 30562 80.91.224.253 (10 Nov 2003 13:12:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:12:31 +0000 (UTC) Cc: eliz@elta.co.il, Karl Berry , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 10 14:12:27 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AJBqE-0000Pz-00 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:12:26 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AJBqE-00056m-00 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:12:26 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AJCgi-0001GB-2n for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:06:40 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AJCga-0001FU-65 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:06:32 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AJCg3-0001BE-VK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:06:31 -0500 Original-Received: from [213.165.64.20] (helo=mail.gmx.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AJCg3-0001B7-5Z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:05:59 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 29195 invoked by uid 65534); 10 Nov 2003 13:04:24 -0000 Original-Received: from dialin-145-254-193-075.arcor-ip.net (EHLO HERMES) (145.254.193.75) by mail.gmx.net (mp002) with SMTP; 10 Nov 2003 14:04:24 +0100 X-Authenticated: #1497658 Original-To: Alper Ersoy In-Reply-To: <20031030104238.GA11503@dirtyweb.penguinpowered.com> (Alper Ersoy's message of "Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:42:38 +0200") X-Attribution: os X-Face: "HgH2sgK|bfH$; PiOJI6|qUCf.ve<51_Od(%ynHr?=>znn#~#oS>",F%B8&\vus),2AsPYb -n>PgddtGEn}s7kH?7kH{P_~vu?]OvVN^qD(L)>G^gDCl(U9n{:d>'DkilN!_K"eNzjrtI4Ya6; Td% IZGMbJ{lawG+'J>QXPZD&TwWU@^~A}f^zAb[Ru;CT(UA]c& User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:17754 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:17754 --=-=-= Alper Ersoy writes: [...] > Oliver Scholz: >> Most notably the markup could be syntactical rather than specifying >> the colours to use. I *hate* it, if a document tells me the best >> colour for me to read a certain syntactic element. Let the document >> specify the syntactical element and let me customize the colour. > > Ok. If we lean towards a syntactical markup, it should _also_ specify > the best colour, typeface, etc. too. We must do this, otherwise > whenever there's a new command in Texinfo, readers will be unaware of > how to handle it. Something like (notation aside): > > ^H^[var bi^H^]Variable^H^[/var^H^] > > So it's bold-italic. But you (info reader) know it's a var, so you > can use whatever style you want. Sometime in the future, when we have > this @funky command: > > ^H^[funky sb,red^H^]Art Vandelay^H^[/funky^H^] > > You don't know what a funky text is, but you can use the style > provided there. You have a point here. If the format would be HTML, it would also be possible to address that, by using

, , etc. with the class attribute extensivly. The class attribute would specify the syntactical information, the raw element name would specify the fallback. > However, I suggested ANSI escapes in the first place because of the > star characters around strong text. One can use @strong only, and > still get a flowing text in display environments supporting bold > typeface. Not with Info though. > > Introducing syntactical markup elements is IMHO burning your blanket > because of one flea. > > The only way to justify changes this level is to also identify the > other problems in Info, and to address them all at once, then declare > it as Info2. After all, we are breaking compatibility here, so it > _must_ have to offer more. I don't know the "other problems". I have to admit that I am just an end user as far as info is concerned. I even hardly ever use texinfo. I'd like to see nicer syntactical fontification, proportional fonts for paragraph text etc. in the Emacs info reader. To get this properly would require changes to the info format. If this is towards HTML with a heavy use of the `class' attribute, then--I believe--it could provide everything necessary for future improvement. Well, since everybody seemed to agree that modifying the standalone info reader would be the hard part, I decided to give it a try and hacked a bit on it. I append both a patch to nodes.c in texinfo-4.6 and the file sample3x.info (in html) which I used for testing. Unfortunately I am probably the person least apt for this task, being unfamiliar with C, unfamiliar with the info source code, unfamiliar with the info format, unfamiliar with texinfo and, finally, unfamiliar with HTML. In fact this is the first larger chunk of C code that I ever wrote. (My thanks go to the people on the IRC channel #emacs for their help, BTW.) I did it in the most primitive way I could think of: it acts like a filter to convert HTML-info files to the current info format on the fly when reading the file contents. Obviously it is far from being complete (I didn't try even). It is rather proof-of-concept code. But if this approach is not absolutely insane, and if my C code is somewhere near of what a real C programmer could accept, then it could serve as a starting point, because I did it in a way that should be easily extensible. It should be simple enough to add ANSI colour sequences for certain tags. --=-=-= Content-Type: application/octet-stream Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=nodes.diff.gz Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 H4sICGeGrz8AA25vZGVzLmRpZmYAxTxpVxtJkp/hV6SZtwYhcdkeu20ZT9NGuHltsJ8tv+637V65 kFKoBqlKW1WCZtz8940j78oS2Mu8oQ9QHpGRkXFlRKS2trZElo9kuT1c6S+kOEmuxd5jsffDi8fP Xvz9iXi0u/t4td1ui51JPpM78jw/lztlMdyp5J9pNs63nmw/3cE/djSUkzwTp/ml2NsFQC8e7754 8pyh/Pij2Hr0tLO3J9rw6/me+PHHVfG3NBtOFyMp1kqZFMPJ9mTNbRynU1lel0ErLbyo0il1tE3H y7IaTdOz7cmrVYHjx2Ikx2kmR2Lj54PTw7e9wcnB6eD9wZvexxb0C2EgzpKM15DZCKbtbIpwgtjc AaDt1XZ1PZcAVpRVsRhWq+2vq20hhpOkEJvjIp917ccqhw83YlLNpgMgVzUokuxcDipohQXeJ2kh 8rGY52lWyaIUVS6qiRRn8jzNRJKNBOCCA3CqwCZcMs3OtxGVNv4js8WMwSPxB4gZrk4YCfFz/+Tt oPe2d9I77Xecpn7vt/7g9N1hz2086Pc/HP/0qd/DthvGsA/wSsSAjhZRQPxG+XAxk1klqkJKi4sm yyJL80xRpbZzsVk49CkD8gxzIERWaQJ9QkhiUcLxAWnKKi+kkCmgUBhSiBz/tivU0eFTskTyzitL ZrLrI2pwEJfJdMG9IQyxOU8KGNTQOZyk0xH0N3RPkxKWwTENAzLEo0zPprBBGhI5ZoH/a5ifVECb 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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Oliver -- Oliver Scholz 20 Brumaire an 212 de la Révolution Taunusstr. 25 Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité! 60329 Frankfurt a. M. http://www.jungdemokratenhessen.de Tel. (069) 97 40 99 42 http://www.jdjl.org --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Emacs-devel mailing list Emacs-devel@gnu.org http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-devel --=-=-=--